Excerpt from Adnan Oktar’s interview of December 7th, 2015 on A9 TV
Mr. Adnan Oktar’s live conversation with Rabbi Ben Abrahamson, Advisor to Jerusalem Rabbinical Courts on Islamic Issues and his wife Mrs. Rebecca Abrahamson on A9 TV (December 7, 2015)
Adnan Oktar: Welcome. It is an honor for us. So nice to have you here. Masha’Allah.
Adnan Oktar: Welcome. You honor us. I am delighted to see you and very much pleased.
Oktar Babuna: May I introduce our guests?
Adnan Oktar: Of course.
Oktar Babuna: Our guests this evening are Rabbi Ben Abrahamson and his wife Rebecca Abrahamson. Rabbi Abrahamson is a historian specializing in such matters as Islam and Judaic law. Since 2004 he has been a consultant to the Jerusalem Rabbinical Courts on matters concerning Islam. Rabbi Abrahamson last year published a book called ‘Divine Diversity: An Orthodox Rabbi Engages with Muslims.’ The book also contains conversations with you. Rabbi Abrahamson has been working for the last 10 years on Islam and Judaism, and their occupying a respected place in Judaic law. He holds conferences in various countries, and in places such as the United Nations, the Israeli Parliament and the House of Lords. Rebecca Abrahamson is a nurse and writer. Her op-ed pieces are published on the leading orthodox media network Arutz Sheva in her corner “Muslims Who Advocate for Peace”. And Master, she also published a long piece about your works.
Adnan Oktar: Masha’Allah. Excellent. May God increase their zeal. I also wish them a happy Hanukkah. May they see many more.
Rebecca Abrahamson: Thank you.
Ben Abrahamson: Thank you.
Adnan Oktar: Masha’Allah. I see that you are very well.
Rebecca Abrahamson: Thank you for your hospitality.
Adnan Oktar: Masha’Allah, I am honored.
Adnan Oktar: What is that book?
Rebecca Abrahamson: Well, these are my husband’s Facebook discussions with Muslims of the last ten years. I compiled them into a book in order to establish dialogue between God-fearing Muslims and Jews.
Adnan Oktar: Great, very nice. May I see?
Rebecca Abrahamson: Oh sure, here.
Adnan Oktar: Divine Diversity.
Rebecca Abrahamson: Basically it talks about the similar, common language between Islam and Judaism; our calendar, festivals, prayers.
Adnan Oktar: This is really a well-chosen work.
Rebecca Abrahamson: And then our common history. I also write from the Torah and from the Qur’an. And then on modern Islam, today how we can work together.
Adnan Oktar: Yes. Let us have this book translated into Turkish, if possible.
Rebecca Abrahamson: That would be beautiful, thank you.
Ben Abrahamson: It talks very much of the importance of expecting Messiah and looking forward to coming Redemption. Every day we should expect this.
Adnan Oktar: Excellent. That is just the kind of words that a faithful, sincere Muslim would say. Very beautiful.
Rebecca Abrahamson: You want to say about the conference today?
Ben Abrahamson: Yes, we came today for a conference on the role of religious people, and the vital role of religious people in the Syrian refugee crisis. It was called the Symposium on Religious Leaders for the Social Integration of Syrian Refugees. And, the United Nations has made many resolutions and declarations, but nothing has come of it. And the reason why is, because they don’t have moral values, religious moral values. And it is really the duty of religious people, believers to stand up and give direction and example for solving these kinds of crises.
Adnan Oktar: Very nice. That is the most important point.
Oktar Babuna: Some highly reputed Christian leading figures also participated. One of them was the Orthodox Christian Patriarch Bartholomew. He sent his special greetings to you, as well as many.
Adnan Oktar: Alaikum salam. You may return my greetings.
Rebecca Abrahamson: That is beautiful to see secular leaders reaching out to religious people and religious leaders to have a group conference together with academics and religious leaders. And they are realizing the world is becoming more religious and they need to hear the voice of religion.
Adnan Oktar: Masha’Allah, that is right.
Rebecca Abrahamson: And in order to understand where the Syrian refugees are coming from, it is essential that people in the West, where they are heading, understand who they are absorbing. And expand the narrative in my opinion, we have got to expand the narrative in the West to understand the incredible contributions that Islam has made to the West. So that, of course the most important thing is to make peace in Syria, through peaceful means. They should not have to run away from their homes. It is heartbreaking that anyone should be a refugee. Any Muslim that moves West whether as a refugee or an immigrant should be welcomed in. And I think that can be helped by expanding the narrative in the West by looking at the Islamic Golden Age, the incredible contributions of Islam to the West; history, philosophy, sociology, geography, mathematics of course. That the West owes gratitude to the forebears of the Syrian refugees who helped build what the West is enjoying now. I believe that we could just expand the narrative to just include facts - What did the Islamic Golden Age contribute to the prosperity of the West? - so that when we are welcoming the refugees in, and any Muslim immigrant that wishes to move into a Western country, they are welcoming a brother or a sister.
Adnan Oktar: The whole world is now seeing what fine people the Jews are.
Rebecca Abrahamson: There are many of us who really care, we were all refugees. All people in the world are descended from the Tower of Babel, the first refugees. And I live in the Holy Land because I believe that is the best way as a Jew, as a Musawi Muslim, to keep the commandments that God gave us through Torah. Many people that built a presence in the Holy Land were descendants from the refugees. No one can turn their back on their plight, because we were all refugees, it is in our primordial soul as descendants of the dispersion of Babel, and it could have happened to us, it has to be a top priority for everyone to think about how to ease their plight. And really using religious organizations, it was beautiful to see that Christian representatives from Greece, from Western countries talking about how they are helping the Syrians.
Adnan Oktar: Masha’Allah. Excellent. Everything will be fine. The King Messiah described in the Torah 3500 years ago, Moshiach, Shiloh, in other words, will be instrumental in the salvation of the world. We can see from the signs in the heavens and on the earth that we have entered his age. This bloodshed is a sign of the appearance of Moshiach. What the Torah says is true. People have seen that it is true. Moshiach is the same person with Mahdi (pbuh) who our Prophet (saas) refers in the hadiths.
The light of the Torah is beautifying Israel. The light of the Qur’an is beautifying Muslims. And the light of the Gospel is beautifying Christians. Of course, we need to avoid polytheism. The Jews are on their guard against idolatry, and that is a very good thing. As you know, polytheism is what is most displeasing to God. One must believe in the One God only.
Ben Abrahamson: Yes. Yes.
Rebecca Abrahamson: If I can say in Judaism, we have the idea of Noahide Covenant where there are seven basic laws that apply to all humanity. And the same in Islam where you have one deen (religion). You call it deen, and we call it Noahide Covenant. As long as people are keeping the one deen, the basic Noahide laws, how they do it can be different. And just like in the Qur’an says, “We have appointed a law (shariah) and a practice (minjah) for every one of you.” Minhaj the customs can be different, and the shariahs laws are different. We have got the Mosaic shariah, Christian, Islamic and also Noahide, which in the Qur’an is called the Sabeans. “If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single ummah (community), but He wanted to test you regarding what has come to you. So compete with each other in doing good. Every one of you will return to Allah and He will inform you regarding the things about which you differed.” (Surat al-Maida, 48) So, variety and being different from each other is in Allah’s plan. It is part of the beauty of the universe and encourages us help each other as we are all united by the same deen (religion) but we differ. So, we can help the other person, one of us might be coming from more of a position of strength. If Muslims are getting insulted, it is up to Jews to stand up for them. The opposite of it is true. Being different helps us being stronger.
Adnan Oktar: The King Messiah, the King Moshiach will enlighten us about these matters. All problems will be resolved. But it is very important for you as his followers and us as his followers to prepare the way and tell people of these delights in advance.
Ben Abrahamson: The Torah describes in Psalms, 115 it talks about three circles of people. It says, “All you Israelites, trust in the Lord—He is their help and shield. House of Aaron, trust in the Lord—He is their help and shield. And the God-fearers, trust in the Lord—He is their help and shield.” Our teachers have explained in Judaism that this talks about the spiritual leaders, and the citizens - the Jewish people - but also the non-Jewish believers throughout the world are considered almost like family that we have to recognize, encourage and support believers who even may have a different covenant than ours and especially at times of crises like we see today.
Adnan Oktar: That is true. They [unbelievers] all are also created by Allah and He preordains such a destiny. If they are honest and sincere and do not conceal their views, it is very important to ask them of their opinion. You are absolutely right.
Ben Abrahamson: It reminds me, when I read the Surat Ash-Shura, 13, He says: “He has laid down the same deen (religion) for you as He enjoined on Noah…” It goes on saying “‘Establish the religion and do not make divisions in it.’” That we should not only not to make divisions between believers, but even between those who are unfortunate and those are more fortunate and those who are running for their lives and those who are providing shelter. And we should not make divisions; we should help each other, and encourage each other.
Adnan Oktar: Let us pray to Allah to show us Moshiach right away. Let Him show us the Mahdi right away. Then the problem will be completely resolved.
Ben Abrahamson: Insha’Allah.
Adnan Oktar: The Torah speaks the truth. The Prophet Muhammad (saas) says the truth.
“I will take away the chariots… and the battle bow will be broken.” (Zechariah, 9:10)
“… (they) will go out and use the weapons for fuel and burn them up—the small and large shields, the bows and arrows, the war clubs and spears… because they will use the weapons for fuel… declares the Sovereign Lord.” (Ezekiel 39:9-10)
“In the last days… Many nations will come… They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore.” (Isaiah 2:4)
Adnan Oktar: This means there will be no more military operations.
“Everyone will sit under their own vine and under their own fig tree…”
Adnan Oktar: This is also very much indicative.
“… and no one will make them afraid, for the Lord Almighty has spoken.” (Micah 4:1-4)
“… Bow and sword and battle I will abolish from the land, so that all may lie down in safety.” (Hosea 2:18)
The Torah explicitly states that a wonderful age will dawn. We are already in the End Times. There is no other time left. We believe that the King Messiah, Moshiach, is already on earth. Insha’Allah I will be his follower, and you will be his followers.
Adnan Oktar: I have read the parts in the Torah related with the Moshiach.
“… you will eat all the food you want and live in safety in your land. ‘I will grant peace in the land, and you will lie down and no one will make you afraid.”
Adnan Oktar: Right now everyone is in fear.
“… I will remove wild beasts from the land, and the sword will not pass through your country.” (Leviticus, 26:5-6) This means the wars will end.
“But the meek will inherit the land and enjoy peace and prosperity.” (Psalms, 37:11) They will dominate the world.
“For the power of the wicked will be broken, but the Lord upholds the righteous. The blameless spend their days under the Lord’s care, and their inheritance will endure forever.” (Psalms, 37:17-18)
Adnan Oktar: It is not through politics or anything like that. God grants a special power to Moshiach - Mahdi. This is clearly explained. “For the power of the wicked will be broken,” this is created by God. “But the Lord upholds the righteous.”
“The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, and dust will be the serpent’s food…” (Isaiah, 65:25)
Adnan Oktar: In brief, we will witness very beautiful days, and we are at a very delightful era. You are being instrumental, and we are being instrumental. We are joining hands together and striving to carry out God’s commandments.
Rebecca Abrahamson: It is beautiful that also you are promoting the concept that Mashiach can come in peaceful means, and does not have to be through war. And it is beautiful that Mr. Oktar is promoting that idea. He can come through peace, we do not have to have war to bring Messiah.
Adnan Oktar: Yes. That is a very vital matter. That is the most important topic for both the Jews and the Muslims. Rabbi Ben Abrahamson is on the 8th in Twitter Turkey trends right now. Masha’Allah. Let me see it.
Rebecca Abrahamson: Can I give another example about helping each other?
Adnan Oktar: Yes, sure. I would like to listen to you more.
Rebecca Abrahamson: More about advocating for the other that Allah made us different and we are here to strive as in a race for virtue, and also help each other.
There is a nice example of how Imam Shamsi Ali and Rabbi Marc Schneier from New York have teamed up. A beautiful example is when unfortunately in year 2011, United States Congress was going to call hearings about the threat of terrorism in America from the Muslim community. We all know that there are threats of terrorism in North America also from the white supremacist community, from the neo-Nazi community. They were going to focus only on Muslims. And Rabbi Schneier felt the pain of his colleague that “We are bring targeted, we are being singled out.” When a person is being victimized, they are weak, it would be hard for the Imam to stand up for himself. Rabbi Schneier said, “Let us hold a rally.” They held a rally in Times Square in March 2011. Over a hundred organizations came to support Muslims saying, “You cannot single people out. Have hearings about the threat of terrorism from every community, radicalism, extremism, but not just Islam.” It is an insult to Western civilization once you understand the incredible contributions that Islam has made. And over a hundred organizations came and one of them was holding a sign, “Atheists for Islam.” So, lots of people care about Muslims and Muslims around the world should know that. In turn, Imam Shamsi Ali advanced holocaust awareness in Austria. As he said, it has become his personal responsibility to say that any anti-Semitism is an attack on him as a Muslim. And anyone who denies the holocaust is denying his rights. So that is a very powerful example, anyone can look on the Internet about their partnership, about advocating for the other. When someone is weak, it is the responsibility for the one who is not being targeted, not being victimized, not in a refugee status to stand up for the other.
Adnan Oktar: The one we are awaiting is the Moshiach, Mahdi –as our Prophet (saas) says- is the one who will stop the bloodshed. He is named “Mahdi al-Dam” and will stop the bloodshed all over the world. He says, not a person’s nose will even bleed. And there will not be a drop of bloodshed in his time. He will not wake up a sleeping person, and will not shed even a drop of blood. Indeed, this is how he is described in lengthy articulation in the Torah. Only by means of the power of his breath, with his way of speaking, fine morality and love, Moshiach will establish peace, tranquility and goodness all over the world.
The most particular attribute of Moshiach is his making beauty and peace to prevail in the world through love. There will be no more wars, incidents, bloodshed, military operations, and military maneuvers, none of these. All the weapons are melted down and put to use in industry, this is also mentioned in the Torah. And the same explanation is found in the hadiths of our Prophet (saas).
Adnan Oktar: Masha’Allah, we have great love for you. You are a very elegant and a high quality, classy lady. This is the first time I have seen this very kind lady. Your face is making evident that you are a very classy, graceful and trustworthy person. In the same way, there is absolutely the purity and light of a Muslim appearance on the face of Abrahamson. You both are very honest and very high quality people, and we love you very much.
I have known respectable Abrahamson, he is definitely a very honest person. And you are also very honest; this has attracted my attention.
Rebecca Abrahamson: Thank you. You, too. We see your nobility, we see the nobility of Muslims worldwide and we care.
Adnan Oktar: Masha’Allah, thank you very much.
Ben Abrahamson: We invite him to Jerusalem and join us altogether.
Adnan Oktar: We will come, but we will then be walking right behind Moshiach.
Rebecca Abrahamson: So soon.
Ben Abrahamson: So, we expect it very soon.
Adnan Oktar: Very soon insha’Allah. We will altogether walk down from the Mount of Olives.
Rebecca Abrahamson: Insha’Allah.
Ben Abrahamson: Insha’Allah.
Adnan Oktar: Let us close our meeting for today. We are expecting you again; we will be meeting again. We are sending our greetings to all that we love.
Ben Abrahamson: I think the very first time that I met Mr. Oktar, he invited that I should bring my family and children here. It took a couple of years, but we are here.
Adnan Oktar: Yes, she is a very noble, high quality lady. She is a very respectable person. There is light of a Muslim on you; I am delighted to see this. According to the particular information we have, we recognize you as Muslims. We regard you as Muslims.
Rebecca Abrahamson: [Some say] We are Musawi Muslims.
Adnan Oktar: Yes, you are Musawi Muslims.
Rebecca Abrahamson: Right.
Adnan Oktar: I am both a Muhammadi Muslim and a Musawi Muslim. Because I read the Torah every day. I read from the Torah, just as I read from the Qur’an. The Torah is light, and grants wisdom, opens the heart. That is the path to guidance. This is how it is written in the Qur’an, as God teaches that the Torah is “guidance and light.” This is stated for the Torah.
Yes, I am wishing a blessed night for all our brothers and sisters who followed the program. We will meet tomorrow insha’Allah.