Bülent Sezgin: Greetings dear viewers. We are beginning our live conversation with Mr. Oktar. Today, we have esteemed guests from Israel and Britain. Oktar will introduce them to you.
Oktar Babuna: Yes, right on my left we have Mr. Rabbi Dov Lipman, we had him as a guest yesterday too. He is the Director of Public Relations at World Zionist Organization. He was a member of the parliament in Israel as a representative from the political party Yesh Atid. As of now he still plays an active role in the party. His articles are regularly published in Israeli press and his opinions are a subject of interest for the press.
Right next to him we have Mr. Rabbi Yeshayahu HaKohen Hollander. Until recently he was the Foreign Minister of the Sanhedrin Rabbinical Court and was the Associate Justice at the Jerusalem Court for Issues of Bnei Noah. For years he worked as a professor both in religious schools and Tel Aviv University. Rabbi Hollander is trained as a theoretical physicist and he is also a licensed patent attorney. Right now he is working towards improving the relations between the three Abrahamic religions.
Right next to him we have Mr. Rabbi Ben Abrahamson. Welcome. Rabbi Ben Abrahamson is an expert historian on the subjects of both Islamic and Jewish religious law. Since 2004, he has been acting as a Consultant Jerusalem Rabbinical Court on the subjects about Islam. At the same time he is the founder and director of the Committee for Historical Research in Islam and Judaism and is now researching the common history of the two religions.
Right next to him we have Mr. Rabbi Avihai Rahimi. As an Iranian Jew and one of the certified rabbis of Sanhedrin Rabbinical Court, he aims to solve the conflicts between Iran and Israel by emphasizing the common religious values between these two religions. He is also the head of multiple organizations such as the organizations for helping the students, supporting the family and women, Israeli rhetoric on campus as well as acting as a Jewish leader and the leader for the youth.
Right next to him as our fifth guest, we have Dr. Wafik Moustafa. Dr. Wafik Moustafa is an Egyptian politician who is living in England. He is the founder and chairman of the British Arabic Network. Also, he is one of the founders of The Inter-Parliamentary Coalition for Global Ethics. He is the former chairman of Egyptian Community Association in the UK. Dr. Moustafa was nominated as a candidate for the UK parliament, and for 25 years he has been representing the Arab minority of Britain in politics.
Adnan Oktar: Masha’Allah, welcome, welcome. It was very kind of you to come here, I am honored. I rejoice every time I see you. Masha’Allah.
Adnan Oktar: Mr. Oktar Babuna, I believe our guests have great things to say. I shouldn’t be the first one to speak. I’m sure our guests will tell us beautiful things, give us glad tidings. Let’s listen to them.
Rabbi Yeshayahu Hollander: Okay, I will start. So, I would like to say to Mr. Oktar, thank you very much for inviting us again and again and spend this time. We have some successes I think in what we have done together and we think it is appropriate to thank Mr. Oktar not only for inviting us but also for advancing the causes of cooperation. And which brings also; cooperation is a good basis for good relations. And we have been cooperating now over trying to get a rapprochement between Israel and Turkey. And we have at least two successes in that. I will not explain exactly what they were, but they were two ideas, which we discussed here, which were reported to the Turkish government. And these were apparently effective in advancing the cause of rapprochement. I think not only we personally and the people here, but I think also both Turkey and Israel have a good reason to thank Mr. Oktar.
Adnan Oktar: Thank you very much for your kind words. Your beautiful hearts and clear conscience were the means for these beautiful outcomes.
This is something that should have happened a long time ago. The children of the Prophet Abraham (pbuh) love each other very much.
Mr. Abrahamson, please go on.
Rabbi Ben Abrahamson: Well, in the last couple of weeks I’ve been spending a lot of time researching about Jerusalem, about the Haram al-Sharif, the Temple Mount, all the structures that exist in the Temple Mount. And there is so much room there, there is a lot of space for many different structures. And even what’s there, I was really impressed. When you look at the Book of Ezekiel, in Ezekiel, the 41st chapter in the 8th verse, it talks about how Ezekiel came to see to Jerusalem in a vision. To see the height of the Temple, to see the measurements of the Temple that will be built in the future. He was shown the measurements, the widths, the heights. And one of the things he saw was the height of the Temple, how high it was. He didn’t give a number, he just said he saw the height. And the word in Hebrew is gova. He saw the height of it. But it’s interesting that is related linguistically to the Arabic word qubba, the kippa, which is a dome. So I was just wondering in my own mind, if Abd al-Malik, when he built all the structures in the Temple Mount, if he had in mind Ezekiel and the expectations of what were to come. It just impressed me how much there is a common heritage in Jerusalem. It’s something that both Muslims and Jews should realize that every group has something to offer and something to receive in that place. And it is to our advantage to embrace our common heritage.
Adnan Oktar: We will see Moshiach. We will also build the Prophet Solomon’s (pbuh) Masjid and his palace. Insha’Allah, you will see it too. Don’t worry. The time has come. We will work with great passion and we will definitely do it. We will intensify our efforts and commitment every new day.
Rabbi Ben Abrahamson: But it is something that nobody should be afraid of, it’s not something bad. It’s something that’s very good for all of mankind.
Adnan Oktar: If they understand that, everywhere will turn into a land of celebration. Everyone will love God, a thousands-of-years-old Masjid will be built, and the days God promised to us are upon us. There will be no more terror, anarchy, bloodshed, or weapons; this is something that will make all mankind happy. People are not expecting this but to their surprise it will actually happen. Surely, it will happen once we solidify our friendship. It will happen as a result of our increased commitment, cooperation, brotherhood and efforts. We will utilize every opportunity. Please go on.
Rabbi Avihai Rahimi: In Jewish concept, as I understand there was a say, fitna, two thousand years ago and the Temple was destroyed. But we believe, as Jews, that we can make it happen by ahavat chinam, that is friendship, compassion between the hearts, not only with Jews but also with all mankind. Instead of seeds of hatred, friendship, compassion, love for one another as a human being. And through that you can, first of all rebuild it in our hearts and then all the nations are going to come and bring stone from here, stone from there and all together we’re going to make it happen.
Adnan Oktar: A lot of gold is needed; everyone will do what they can.
Rabbi Avihai Rahimi: It’s not only the material, it means the spiritual. If you have the holy place of the three monotheistic religions; as Christians, Muslims, and Jews all together, whenever we work with each other towards something that is for humanity, for humanitarian aid, we can bring and unify all the nations towards that. That’s going to be the first step that Adnan Oktar already started with, it’s going to bring the yeshua (salvation) not only for the Jews, Muslims or Christians, but to all the nations and to all human beings by peace and tolerance. To understand one another, to make it happen in our hearts, you are going to have to give time to others to speak, to understand all the cultures, that is multiculturalism. Whenever you hear the dogma that ‘my religion is the best’ as we say, as Christians, Muslims, or Jews; it’s not going to happen. But, whenever you understand it by multiculturalism and you see yourself part of the nations, part of the human being, you move forward to this peace and compassion. This is rebuilding first of all the Temple in our hearts spiritually, bringing, unifying the nations all together and rebuilding it all together for the sake of God.
Adnan Oktar: Moshiach is very talented, he is a grand mason and therefore he builds beautifully. He will supervise this beautiful construction. He is also very good at fixing the hearts and fixing the buildings.
Rabbi Ben Abrahamson: King David spoke about this in a most beautiful way. In the Psalms, he said 'O, Israel trust in the Lord: He is their help and salvation’, and goes on to say: ‘O, House of Aaron, trust in the Lord: He is their help and salvation,’ and people, ‘You who fear the Lord, He is their help and salvation.’ What King David was saying is that Jerusalem represented all three groups of people coming together, the children of Aaron, the children of Israel and those who fear the Lord. And we know that the people who fear the Lord, we call them the ‘children of Noah’ or Bnei Noah. This is a name for God fearers, and Targum Onkelos in Numbers translates the Kenites as Salamians, as like the word Muslim. So we really, in order to have Jerusalem fulfill its potential, it needs all the nations in the world to be working together, the God-fearers and the Children of Israel and the House of Aaron.
Rabbi Yeshayahu Hollander: I would like to just make one comment. I think the English translation of the Hebrew should not be ‘fear of God’, it should be ‘awe of God’. And I think that people who love God, as Maimonides explains ‘you love God and you are in awe of God', but if you do what you should be doing, there is no reason to be afraid of God. It is awe that you should have. That’s just English, just a wording. We speak in English, so we should speak accurate English. By translating the word 'yir'e' in the Tanakh (Torah) - King David spoke Hebrew, he didn’t speak English - so he didn’t say ‘fear’. We didn’t say ‘awe’, but I think the proper translation is ‘awe’.
Rabbi Ben Abrahamson: God fearers could be seen as people who are in awe of God, who submit to Him, not just fear God.
Adnan Oktar: Who also submit to God, very nice. You may please have your say.
Dr. Wafik Moustafa: Thank you very much. I’m very grateful for your bringing us all together like this. I think it’s something very important and great to do it. For me as a British Egyptian, I see as a Muslim, a nominally Sunni Muslim, I see there is great challenge in the near future and probably there is a challenge in the longer term. Particularly there is a huge vacuum of understanding. Turkey has brought something very positive that can work. Me today I was able to visit a Jewish museum, this peace, this harmony, this understanding and there is a dialogue. We need to extend this dialogue to the Arabic speaking nations and other countries in the Middle East like Iran and probably Pakistan. I think it’s a huge vacuum it’s going to need to build particularly. We have a huge confusion in the Middle East because of lack of knowledge. The number of books translated into Arabic of last five years is less than the number of books translated into Spanish in one year. So it is the knowledge, which empowers people. And to empower people with knowledge, you have to empower them with democracy, with autonomy, with respect for human rights. I think that is where soft power of country like Turkey can be useful in bringing about such change. Because without change, I doubt if there will be real political, religious change. I have been to Israel about six weeks ago and I went to Temple Mount and I walked around and went to Al-Aqsa Mosque, and the Wailing Wall. I felt things are exaggerated too much and used for political purposes. I think we need to emphasize that we need to make trips, to make younger generations to see themselves. Because the modern age now of communication is breaking borders, and as well breaking countries like Libya, Syria, and Iraq.
Adnan Oktar: May I ask, is Mrs. Shoshana comfortable in her place? Does she need anything? Masha’Allah, Mrs. Shoshana is a person who has done great work and she works with great effort and enthusiasm. We congratulate her and respect her a lot.
Mrs. Shoshana Bekerman: Thank you. Mr. Oktar’s support is vital for world peace and everything, all your initiatives I think deserve all the accolades, and wish you good fortune and success in everything that you do.
Adnan Oktar: First of all, the Muslim and Jewish communities should have a strong bond of friendship and brotherhood. Satan concocted a big plot, a big scheme. Muslims and Jews share many common values. We should first foil this scheme of satan. Secondly, Christians are pure-hearted people, who hold love and peace in high esteem. They could easily ally with Muslims. As far as I see, a foul lovelessness has devastated the world. Yet here you are, here we are; we should bring all the rational, sensible people together. We should unite all the people of love, who value love as soon as possible. We need to work in haste regarding this effort. In this regard, Bediuzzaman Said Nursi says that one should not overdo everything, but overdoing is a must when it comes to communicating. In other words, he says people should frequently communicate, be in close touch with each other. We should bring together all the people who value love wherever we see them and introduce them to each other and unite them.
Rabbi Ben Abrahamson: Do you have any advise for us as to what we can do in our places to increase trust between Muslims and Jews and to dispel bigotry and misconceptions?
Adnan Oktar: For one, the Israeli government should be brave. They are a bit hesitant. It is not shameful to work for the sake of friendship. We should persistently offer a loving hand to everyone; we should approach everyone with love. It wouldn't be right to worry about the reactions of others. For example, visits between Turkey and Israel could be much more frequent. As Rabbi Hollander and Rabbi Abrahamson already mentioned, the friendly feelings towards Israel has been on the rise in Turkey thanks to our efforts. We have managed to eliminate that evil oppression and shattered the enmity towards Israel in Turkey to a great extent. Yes, there are such people [with animosity towards Israel] in Turkey. Polls showed that the anti-Israeli sentiment was quite high. But our government acted courageously. Mr. Tayyip Erdogan took a beautiful step towards that direction and I can tell that he really wants to achieve rapprochement with Israel. We see that these continual efforts and demonstrations of love are heartening our governments. We should step up these efforts.
Adnan Oktar: You may please go on.
Rabbi Dov Lipman: So I was here yesterday and at that point was only in Turkey for a few hours. Having been here now for more than a day, I actually sat down and wrote an article about all the misinformation that exists among Israelis about what it’s like here in Turkey.
Adnan Oktar: Very nice, in the Jerusalem Post, yes.
Rabbi Dov Lipman: I have been welcomed and treated in such a friendly manner by people first and foremost in your organization, but just in general in being around. And it’s such a different picture than I would have ever imagined before I came.
And my message, coming back to Israel after this trip, even on a political level, is very much going to be that -of course there is discussion now of renewed relationship on a political and government level- but there has to be even more efforts exactly the way you described it amongst people. Because I really believe that’s where the real change can happen. Jews who are looking to live peacefully with Muslims and Muslims who are looking to live peacefully with Jews can actually find a common ground together.
Adnan Oktar: As I have said many years ago, trying to hurt innocent Israeli people will only bring ill fortune and cause lack of blessings. Many politicians realized the truth in my words. I feel that this lies behind the current change.
Rabbi Dov Lipman: We are very thankful that there is someone who is sharing that message. As it has been mentioned, there is so much misinformation and so much propaganda against and to have someone who is sharing the truth, that’s what is necessary to break through.
Adnan Oktar: I think the call to prayer is being recited, so let's have a short break.
Yes, let’s start a new hashtag on Twitter with the word ‘love’. What should we say? Let's say ‘Love trusts’. We come up with a new hashtag about love every day. This has been going on for a long time and they all make it to the Top Trend list, right? Lack of love is the main problem around the world. But, there are also many rational, sensible people, but they are not aware of each other. When we manage to unite these people swiftly, they will make up the greatest power of the world.
Dr. Wafik Moustafa: Because that means breaking the barriers. Because if you look at a society where there are a lot of barriers -in the personal level or sectarian level- it is very difficult to develop closeness. Say a Jewish woman and a Muslim Arab man, or vice versa, it’s because of lack of sense of autonomy. Of course wisdom is very important. Wisdom comes with age most of time, but wisdom, it can be young as well. To seek knowledge, feeling free to choose is very important in love.
Adnan Oktar: God wants love from us; love is very beautiful. Without love, religion cannot exist. When there is love, they will see how meaningless it is to have an attitude against other religions. In other words, fanaticism is the root of all troubles.
Dr. Wafik Moustafa: Yes, fanatic does not know love. Fanatic only knows violence.
Adnan Oktar: Yes, please go ahead.
Rabbi Avihai Rahimi: The point is, you spoke of the hashtag of the love and trust. You’re speaking about these abstract concepts that you have to bring it into practice: micro and macro. Micro is, as already he mentioned, friendship, you know between brothers, between sisters. It is love and compassion between women and men in the frame of the family making. We say about families in Judaism, we say families are man and woman put together for the next generation with one target: how to educate them for love and trust through the institution of the family that it is going to come through. But if you could take, not only friendship but also the family making between women and men, and take it to the nations that are in dispute already, that means, like a “family therapist”. I can say that it is like dealing with divorce, but it’s not so simple. Some people prefer to make peace possible, but families get separated and so on. But with the nations, they have their own autonomy. They have their own cultures and set of minds. How can we bring them together? It is not the same as with one man and woman. It’s nations, each of them by their own set of minds that you have to find the common values.
For example, even in Egyptian culture and Eastern culture we can find so much in common. We found this out right away. We met each other I think half an hour ago. We found too many things in common because our values that we are sharing with each other are collective history. It is something that it is not coming from only abstract values and abstract concepts, but we are putting into practice common values one with each other. What we can do with each other, we can then move forward between leaders, between the clergymen, between Rabbis and so on, between the politicians as well. We are not limited to only the territories that we are speaking about, but also to bring these messages as messengers to all nations, that it is possible to do that.
Adnan Oktar: Yes, it is actually easy to guide the society towards the right way. People think it is very difficult, but it is actually really easy to do it. For example, we are a small group of friends. We explained the invalidity of Darwinism. And now, 80% of the Turkish population does not believe in Darwinism, whereas earlier 80% believed it to be true. Now 80% does not believe in it. This is an incredible outcome and we achieved this with a very small group of friends. In the past, less than 7% of the Turkish people believed in the coming of the Mahdi, in other words, Moshiach. But, now this number is 70%. What I’m saying is, it is easy to convince people by explaining the truths. Most people fail in their efforts, because they fall into despair. They think people will not listen to them, or that it’s impossible. However, God directed all the incidents around the world for the coming of Moshiach - Mahdi; He paved the way for his coming. We just need to be more determined and more sincere, and maintain our cooperation in explaining these facts. For instance, the Israeli army prays for Moshiach. This is marvelous. We show that video over and over again on our TV. And groups of Israel’s religious people come together and pray for the coming of Moshiach. We show those videos frequently. Many people are not aware of the deep impact these have on people's subconscious. For example, in Iran, people sing passionate chants for the coming of the Mahdi. This has a deep impact on the society. Even the smallest piece of information shared on the Internet can generate waves of tremendous excitement among the society. People are extremely moved by great spiritual incidents, which are realistic, and which they witness with their eyes. We should spread this.
For example, when I showed that Jews are very religious, for instance there is a system of gender segregation among religious Jews. Years ago, when I showed how religious Jews were, it affected the traditionalist Muslims greatly. I showed that video, and it had a great impact. The fact Jews are religious had a very positive impact on Palestine, Egypt, on the whole region as it inspired a spirit of competition in Muslims to become more religious than Jews. People sometimes fail to see the significance of such things, but, in truth, they make a huge impact. Therefore, constantly talking about Moshiach, in other words about the Mahdi, the Israeli army and the Jews praying for the coming of Messiah in ever-increasing numbers will bring about great blessings. People cannot really appreciate the power of God.
For example, I am sorry to interrupt, there is a video that we frequently show, let's watch the video of our Jewish brothers and sisters praying for the coming of the Moshiach.
Turn the volume up please.
Rabbi Avihai Rahimi: It is so important that they have a common target: Moshiach b’mehera b’yameinu (as soon as possible). But, what we do for that, that’s the point. First of all, hope, motivation, that’s great, in a spiritual way and as well in the army. In Judaic concepts that we have first of all, we have to put our good deeds as the first step, and then we can ask HaShem to bring us the Moshiach. But just expecting that Moshiach is going to come as we found in the Scrolls in Masechet Ketubot 111a there were three oaths that prevented getting to Israel to establish the state of Israel. Because they wanted the Moshiach to do that, but what happened? The Zionist movement moved forward, thinking and proactive first of all, bringing all the Jews from all over, from Basel, from all the diaspora, altogether to be one nation in the land of Israel. Hope, motivation, but it happened. Why? Because by their good deeds that they did altogether, this made it happen. Also, they have another part of it, Palestinians, that we have Arab Israelis that are part of the Israel nation. They got equality and they have their own autonomy, cultural autonomy. They expected not only by hoping that it is going to come, but we have to do that by our own hands, making it happen. And by what? By practicing it with one each other.
Adnan Oktar: In the era of the Mahdi, there won't be a caliph leading the Muslims. In the era of the Mahdi, a comet with two tails will appear in the sky. A comet with two tails will appear in the sky at time of the Moshiach. God has already made it appear, this two-tailed comet. It is the Comet Lulin. Our Prophet (pbuh) also heralded the appearance of the Halley's Comet, and this came to pass as well. In addition to this, he also heralded the appearance of the Star of Bethlehem and it also came true. All of these did not occur through the efforts of people. God made the foundation of the State of Israel for the appearance of the Mahdi. Even though people founded Israel, it was in fact established by God. Otherwise, God might not have allowed them. God made it possible for the Mahdi, the Moshiach in other words, to appear and to carry out his activities with ease while there are Christians, Jews and Muslims in Israel.
In other words, it all happened for the sake of Moshiach; it was not merely for the existence of a political community there. In other words, all of these happened so that the will of God can be established over the world. Certain invisible forces have also played a part. And these invisible forces played a bigger part than the visible ones.
Dr. Wafik Moustafa: I was, for me, I would say that it is an axis of prosperity, which extends between Egypt, Israel and Turkey, which can create a new vision for a new world, a new life, new understanding. Because there is a great similarity between Judaism and particularly Islam to some point, sometimes you get confused which is which and where Islam is, like marriage ceremony, henna, Kitab, kutup. The word first word in Qur’an was ‘iqra’, and you know more about this word than me. I think, they should be public from bottom up, understanding between the nations rather than controlled by the top by the regimes, which is undemocratic and actually fragmenting this process of prosperity.
Rabbi Avihai Rahimi: It is so important that, already Rabbi Hollander also mentioned, it is not expecting from the regimes, undemocratic or the totalitarian countries’ regimes, that are not at the same level of autonomy in sovereignty and giving to people. But whatever that we can do as a people, as mankind that you can do, that is people to people. NGOs with NGOs. INGOs, you know international non-profit organizations, they are going to bring people together. We have the technology it’s happening, spreading, broadcasting right now. Your program is broadcasting to thousands and millions of people, they can see it, watch whatever is happening right away in this room. It means that this is the Messiah era, Moshiach era. What is happening on social networks, technologies and so on, how we can use it to bring us, and the mankind, together? Not for hostility, not for the disputes, not for the seeds of hatred, against that. We are going to do that together, hand by hand, people to people, to bring the common values. Something that you can make it happen, and that’s what people already want. Liberty, They want it. That is love, they want it. The hashtag you said, trust one another. It’s going to be the road that we travel together. Nowadays, we say that in Messiah era, the Moshiach era, that HaShem (God) is going to take all the Hasidim (pious people), all the Sadikim (righteous people), all together. All mankind that did good deeds, will come together in a circle. Hand in hand. Why circle and not another thing? Because in a circle you can see that we are dancing with each other. We are holding hands with each other. Each of them say Zeh HaShem Kivinu Lo (this is HaShem, I will rejoice in Him.) In a circle, at that point of the circle, in the middle of that everyone says Zeh HaShem Kivinu Lo (this is HaShem, I will rejoice in Him.) This is the God we worship. But each of them, they are Christians, Turks, Iranians, each of them, they do it with their own tariqah, with their own way of thinking, set of mind. But everyone in the Messiah era is going to get altogether and dance with each other, with the same common targets. How we can get to there? Just people with people. People to people, by the messenger. That’s going to be one step we took towards that coming from Israel to Turkey. Mr. Adnan Oktar did all these steps to bring us together, that’s Messiah era.
Adnan Oktar: There was strong anti-Semitism in the Islamic world. We are the one group that works the hardest to eliminate it. And we were very successful. They weren't strong enough against us. They tried to drive a wedge between Turkey and Israel, even tried to make these two countries enemies, but they couldn't. A very small group became the means to prevent it. We clearly see that all the power belongs to God, because it wasn't something we alone could do. We only did the best we could, and God granted us good results. The same thing is true for Freemasonry, as well. Almost everyone hated them. But I defended the good Masons, and said ‘they are not all bad people, there are good people amongst them. There are religious Jews, religious Christians, religious Muslims amongst them.’ And I said ‘it’s just a club, an organization,’ and was able to eliminate the hatred towards Masons. There was a similar kind of anger towards the Knight Templars. I eliminated that too, I eliminated that by utilizing the same point of view. We are seeking to cooperate with the good people in every community. We want Masons and religious Jews to be involved in these great efforts, which is something they are already doing. And we want sincere, religious Christians, who believe in One God, to participate too. But of course, it takes efforts, even though they are small. We make a modest move and God grants us great results.
We normally don't have the power to eliminate Darwinism all together, it is a global power. Because tens of thousands of universities are under the control of Darwinists, they have millions of professors, instructors, and research assistants. We are a very small group, very very small. We normally don't have enough strength to defeat them, but we did it. We were able to defeat them around the world. But we have always mentioned the name of the Mahdi - Moshiach; we have always trusted in God. We never said that we were doing all these because we are too talented. We always said that God is doing it and He is making us only the means and instruments. We always said that the sole power belongs to God and He is giving us good results. For example, our relations with Israel will strengthen even more in the coming days, you will see. We will be true friends and we will completely eliminate the anti-Israeli sentiment in Turkey. That sentiment was 80% before, and it is rapidly declining. At one point, it reached 80%, but as a result of our efforts, it's rapidly declining now. Our government realized this and adopted a friendly and warm approach towards Israel. But there is intense pressure of traditionalist Muslims on the government. They are trying to show anti-Israeli sentiment as a requirement of Islam. They imply that if you are a true believer, if you are a sincere Muslim, then you have to be hostile to Israel. But, the truth is the exact opposite. A true Muslim loves Jews and Christians, but of course if he witnesses a wrong kind of faith, he would warn them and he would warn them with love and affection and kindness. We have put an end to the language of hatred in Turkey. And we were able to do that quite easily. When I go outside, I see that the youth is full of love, it wasn't like this before. For example when I go out to shopping, almost everyone wants to take a photo with me, it is getting hard to even walk. This shows that the language of love has advanced so much.
In the past, people had these stereotypes about Muslims where they saw Muslims as people who fight, kill and swear. The only other option was shown as atheism. They thought that there was nothing in between. We told about a Muslim model, who is loving, merciful, rational, modern, compassionate and who is protective towards the Jews and Christians. The youth has adopted it. Right now, the traditionalist Muslims cannot even object to us. I invite them to talk, to discuss but nobody accepts my invitation because what I say is true. What I speak is in agreement with the Qur’an, I point out the verses from the Qur’an. For example, our meeting here with you is a serious step towards eliminating anti-Semitism. At first, they resisted but they were not strong enough so they backed off. At first they were showing great resistance, but now, there is a policy of friendship growing with the Jews. They are also criticizing the government.
We provided the support that the government can rely on. In a sense, we are defending the government. The government cannot defend itself. They can't say, 'we love Jews because the Qur’an says so.' But we can say that. The maximum the government can do is saying, 'the Jews are our allies and we respect them,' they have to speak politically. We are in charge of detailing it, and proving it with evidence. We are providing the foundation for the government to stand on. For example, we defeated Darwinism, and that was a foundation for the government, too. Governments always need a philosophy and ideology at the foundation. No government can last without a philosophy. And very small groups provide the ideological foundation that governments rely on. That’s why Moshiach will also achieve worldwide success with a very small group. God will make it happen, insha'Allah we will all witness it. I am a student of Moshiach, you are the students of Moshiach, we are all students of Moshiach. Even though I haven't seen him, I'm doing everything within my power to be a student of Moshiach.
Rabbi Ben Abrahamson: I think with the movie we saw before, and what you have been saying all along, is the importance of replacing despair with hope. And actually in our prayers, the Jewish people pray three times a day in the synagogue. Actually we pray five times a day, also twice in the morning and evening. But the prayer we pray, every public prayer is, Et tzemach David avd’cha m’herah tatzmi-ach, ‘the offspring of David - the Moshiach, the Messiah - should come forth quickly.’ V’karno tarum bishu-atecha, ‘And He should bring forth salvation because for His salvation we hope all day long.’ It is important we say in our prayers, that we have to hope for Messiah, hope for the Messianic age, and replace despair with hope. This is something we say three times a day and it is something, a message, which is just universal.
Adnan Oktar: Surely, by means of that, God grants us blessing, strength, determination and success.
Rabbi Avihai Rahimi: The point is, as Mr. Oktar says, Darwin. Darwin’s theory, it wasn’t just a theory, it was used as an instrument for political matters; it means separation of church of religion, church from the state. Second thing, it started the social Darwinism that means there is no single mankind, that there are those which are superior and inferior. That brought us to Holocaust, brought us to Stalin, fascism, and brought us to Hitler and the Germany’s Nazism and so on. It means that you see that the theory, even by science it wasn’t put into reality. Because they couldn’t find at all how they got from point A to the mankind. Couldn’t find all these lines to the mankind. Because the Creation is that the mankind is created by God, man and woman tzelem Elokim b'hi'baram, meaning created in the image of God. And mankind they have their own autonomy and Moses by Exodus actually brought the first message. He brought out that and became the nation of Israel from Egypt. He brought them and gave them Ten Commandments that's teaching us Anochi HaShem Elokecha which means ‘I am the God that you can worship’. But some can say also, ‘I’, that is egocentrism. He says HaShem Elokecha, ‘that is your God’ which is egocentrism. Whenever we are going to a Western culture it’s more egocentric. See that is not letting the people think by their own set of minds. And not allowing them to bring by their own steps moves like the Arab Spring. That’s what they do as an Islamic Awakening, they make their own steps to democracy. It means step by step, but whenever that you are going to bring something new as a spring, like the Arab Spring that is going to bring the democracy. We saw what happened in Afghanistan and in Iraq. It means that step by step, not only the regimes but also the people to people and the mankind together, they can do it, as they did it in the Arab Spring, all these nations in Arab countries.
Adnan Oktar: Of course, love is vital. You are very right. Sincerity, wisdom and conscience.
Dr. Wafik Moustafa: I think the success of Israel as a nation in the Middle East goes back to people with principled vision, very dedicated, who over a period of fifty years or forty years, were able to build and work together. I think the most important is working together, because at the end of the day, nobody can force a Russian Jew to meet an Armenian Jew, who has a completely different culture, different outlook, different upbringing. But you work it together. When you look at the Jews who live in Egypt, for example in the thirties and forties, they were a part of Egyptian society and rich as well. In fact, some of the political parties in Egypt were led by Jews. So I think we have got to invest in that again.
Adnan Oktar: Because they love God very much. Because they fear God very much. They are, as a community a very important subject in the Qur’an; Israel is mentioned in hundreds of verses. They are the descendants of the prophets. Of course, they will have highly significant roles in the End Times.
Dr. Wafik Moustafa: That’s why we should work together really. I mean this harmony now is not because of people who hate each other. But this harmony is because of political leaders who appear nowhere, like to control their country by creating a hate culture to consume the people’s energy. That is why it’s not a very productive society.
Adnan Oktar: The governments of the world should be courageous. They act rather reservedly as they are afraid of losing votes. They should not worry about losing votes. Every government should be very confident, very sincere, very determined in love, fellowship and brotherhood. It is wrong to provoke enmity towards Israel, towards Islam or towards Christians for the sake of votes.
Israeli government should not give into the oppression from the groups that are against religion, against the religious people of Israel, because the Israeli government is a pious one. And the Prime Minister as well, I think he should be braver and more decisive. It seems that they are very affected by several negative statements in the newspaper articles. In my opinion, they should not be adversely affected at all. God will grant them success and protection. I think they should act more freely.
He can be more outspoken about his protection of the religious people, and he can clearly talk about the Moshiach. There have always been cynical, tactless people in every era of the prophets. He should not pay any heed to such people’s comments.
Rabbi Avihai Rahimi: If we go back to the Islamic movements, we get to the modernist, Islamic modernism. We get al-Afghani, Abdul Rashid. And when we get to the history, we are going to get to whom? We get to Hassan al-Banna, Muslim Brotherhood. Through him, because of the Nasserists and the oppression of the Muslim Brotherhood, you see the writings of the Hassan al-Banna. It’s a program, it’s a cultural program to make the movement to be more, let’s say motivating the people for something new that’s going to happen. But because of the oppression of the Nasser, it brought him to Sayyid Qutb and through that maybe to Qutbism and through that to al-Qaeda, ISIS. Maybe they wanted the Muslim Brotherhood in another way. But, how Hassan al-Banna, Abdul Rashid wanted a modernist Islam, that we have multiculturalism as well, so that we have interaction between the cultures of East and West. To bring something new to Islamic countries, not the Arab countries only. 22 Arab countries, to fifty-six, fifty-nine Islamic countries. It means that we need not only hope and motivation, we need a program. Not a program just for the Muslim brotherhood, we need a program for the mankind brotherhood. And by your vision, maybe we can make it together, that’s going to happen.
Adnan Oktar: Yes, I agree with you; being rigid isn’t a good thing. The right thing to do is to be more affectionate, more loving, more compassionate, and more embracing in our treatment of others. We should want the best for everyone. This is what God wants from us.
Dr. Wafik Moustafa: What about Wahhabism? We have touched about Muslim Brotherhood. But I think, Muslim Brotherhood and the Wahhabis from Saudi Arabia is the cause of all these problems of the last twenty years, 9/11, etc. I think and the oil money of course enriched the large-scale building of hundreds of mosques all over the place. I know in England, for example, one billion pounds were spent in one year just to support mosques in England. One billion pounds, rather than create schools, and education, and translate books into Arabic language for people to learn.
Adnan Oktar: When the Muslim Brotherhood came into power in Egypt, I invited its prominent members here. I advised them to promote a very modern Islamic conception, to prioritize love; to be embracing towards modern women who wear revealing clothes, and the modern youth, and to look out for the Jews and the Christians as well. So that in their public appearances, they should include Jewish and Christian people as well as modern youth and veiled women and this way people can see they embrace all sections of the society. I advised them to place great importance to art, science and aesthetics. They thanked me for my advice. But then they asked me in the end if I could help them with regard to tourism. At that point, I realized that they hadn't actually understood what I had been telling them. Had they heeded the solution I offered them, they would have achieved great results. But there is a lesson to be found in every bad experience. Every bad experience opens people's mind and makes them see what is right. I believe that, from now on, it will be easier for the Egyptian people to discern the right from wrong. I think they took important lessons from their past mistakes. God disciplines people in various ways, and this is a warning from God to people, a method of education. God disciplines people quietly, without people noticing it.
But, in my opinion, every person can be convinced and guided to the right path when they are spoken and explained properly unless they are inherently evil. This is why I do not hold grudge against anyone. It is very important to be a reasonable, levelheaded person.
Rabbi Avihai Rahimi: To be moderate, it doesn't mean separation between church and the state. To be moderate, it does not mean that you have to be secular. To be moderate, it does not mean that you have to change your set of mind. You can have, you can be dati, (you can be religious, you can believe in God, not in Darwinism, chas veshalom (may God forbid). But, move forward with the technology, move forward with the modernism. Because in the West, the modernization is coming with the secularization. The separation of the church and state. But whenever you go to Israel, as a role model, the only democratic state in the Middle East, you can find that you can be religious as well as moderate. You can have all the nations in one nation, all together coming from France, from Poland, from East and West together. And we have the target to build, after the Holocaust that happened, to rebuild it. Something new to bring in, and to create. To create, it means that we are saying we are just going to come together, we can do that. Together, through the nations, of themselves, you say the Muslim Brotherhood, great. What did you do for other Muslims? You are going to cut their heads? Or, you do things to moderate them, to give them knowledge, to educate them, not with hatred, with love and compassion. What you do for dawah, the Wahhabis? You get billions of dollars to open the mosques, OK, to be dogmatic? Or going to give them love? To be a part of the nations, we can find this also in the history of Islam. The Abbasids, after the Banu Umayya, Banu Abbas, Harun al-Rashid and there was knowledge. And the Middle Era, when there was darkness in Europe, in the darkness of the Middle Ages we could find Al-Andalus. In East the Rambam (Maimonides), Rabbi Saadia Gaon, they wrote their writings in Arabic Hebrew. In Iran, they wrote their poems of Shahin, Amrani, Baba’i Lutf, they wrote it in Persian, in Jewish - Persian handwriting.
Just because of what, because of openness of the nations listening to each other. Openness it means that opening ourselves not only to learn from others, we are going to keep also our own heritage as the Japanese did, the Eastern countries, the Singapore, and these countries did, and the Hong Kong and they did move forward with moderate and keeping their, like Israel, their own heritage.
Adnan Oktar: Yes, we will meet again. We will meet again tonight, insha'Allah. We have come to the end of our program for now.
Presenter: We are thanking our guests for attending our program.