The Solution to the Sufferings of Muslims in East Turkestan Is the Turkish-islamic Union
Mr. Adnan Oktar's USA Pine River Interview (August 28, 2008)
PINE RIVER: … You are proposing the establishment of an Islamic Union comprised of member nations - not only from the Middle East but also inclusive of Muslim countries in Asia and Europe - and structured along the lines of the EU. As there is already an Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC) what could the IU accomplish that the OIC cannot?
MR. OKTAR: Muslims have a Qur'anic obligation to act as one, as brothers. The Turkish-Islamic Union is essential for that. Muslim, Turkic states must come together under the umbrella of this union of hearts. But every state will nevertheless remain a separate national state. Every state will act independently regarding its internal affairs; but they will also act in unison under the roof of the Turkish-Islamic Union. If such a union comes about, the current conflict and strife will come to an end. The union will be a great instrument of equilibrium over a wide expanse of territory. The greatest benefit of this will be the simultaneous end to terror. No such thing as terrorism will be left remaining. The second benefit will be enormous economic prosperity. Most important of all, however, there will be a great spiritual peace and well-being. All sections of society will be at peace. Believers will live in peace, and also unbelievers.
The Turkish-Islamic Union that I am talking about is a union of hearts, of love and a shared reason. Great love is essential in order to set up such a vibrant union, such a climate of brotherhood. Intense enthusiasm is essential. These things cannot be produced by red tape, but by fervor and enthusiasm. In other words, you need love to extend a helping hand to another country, to regard it as a brother and seek a solution to its problems, to take a common decision and put an immediate end to anarchy when terror raises its head anywhere.
PINE RIVER: In your article titled "A Call To An ‘Islamic Union'" you wrote:
"Muslims should collectively work to establish a system that brings societies different from one another into relationships of mutual tolerance and peace... In the aftermath of the Sept 11 attacks, however, a dire problem emerged. Certain circles that claim to speak on behalf of Islam, but clearly lack the understanding of the essence of it, work to wreak suffering on humanity rather than striving for its benefit. In attacking and killing innocent people, they committed the vilest sin forbidden by Islam - in other words, they brought chaos to the world."
How would your proposed Islamic Union deal with the problem of terrorism?
MR. OKTAR: The most effective struggle that can be waged against terror is an intellectual one, a struggle of ideas. It is impossible to defeat mosquitoes until the swamp they breed in has been dried up, in other words, until the ideologies representing the foundations of terror have been eliminated. Darwinism lies at the heart of terrorism. You cannot expect someone who has been indoctrinated to regard human beings as a kind of animal, to believe that progress is possible only through conflict, and to think one has to be strong to survive, to also be loving and compassionate. Such a person's ruthlessness and willingness to kill, without batting an eyelid, anyone who threatens his own interests, and slaughter others for the sake of the ideology he espouses is the natural consequence of Darwinist indoctrination. Those who claim to resort to terror and violence in the name of Islam are at heart Darwinists. The Qur'an makes it crystal clear that there is no room for violence in Islam. Allah even says "It will be better for you to forgive," even in reference to someone who has committed murder. Which course of action will a Muslim choose? The more auspicious path, of course. He will choose to forgive. Forgiveness is inherent in Islam. And love. And compassion. But there is no room for violence. Islam means peace. Allah commands peace.
In order to combat terror, people need to be told of the true and dangerous indoctrination of Darwinism. They need to be shown that it is of no scientific worth. Society can quickly be educated by way of such cultural activities as books, articles, public meetings, conferences and video shows. Once people come to see the true face of Darwinism, the foundations of atheism, lovelessness, heartlessness, ruthlessness, cruelty and violence will collapse. Once a powerful union has been established in the Turkish-Islamic world, these activities will be much easier, and the strength of the Turkish-Islamic Union will act as a deterrent to those who support violence and wish to create chaos and anarchy.
PINE RIVER: In your writings you emphasize Muslim unity as necessary to a peaceful world. You wrote:
"The Islamic Union must work to bring peace to all people, not just Muslims, and tolerant and peaceful in its decisions and practices. The core of Islam is the good morality revealed in the Qur'an, which requires Muslims to be friendly, gentle, compassionate, tolerant, just, understanding, patient and devoted. Islam invites people to a peaceful world."
Saparmyrat Turkmenbashy, the late president of Turkmenistan, penned a similar message in the Ruhnama:
"The Turkmen sees other nations as his own brothers, his own friends. Racism cannot find a place among Turkmens. Turkmens respect the languages, the religions and the traditions of other nations."
That said, how would the IU unify the Muslim nations and dispel the notion of tribalism and ethnicity?
MR. OKTAR: The love, understanding, moderation, humility and rationality set out in the Qur'an will represent the essence of the Turkish-Islamic Union. Allah has revealed in the Qur'an that superiority lies in piety alone. It is not material advantages, the color of a person's skin, his belief or ancestry that makes one person superior to another. Only spiritual values can make one superior to another. In other words, someone who is humble, who has a greater fear of Allah, who loves Allah more and is more keen to help others, more altruistic, more patient and gentler therefore applies the moral values of the Qur'an in a finer manner. Such manners are more valuable both in other people's eyes and in the Sight of Allah, inshaAllah. But that superiority does not mean oppressing or exploiting others. In speaking of the founding of a Turkish-Islamic Union under the leadership of the Turkish nation, when I say that the Turkish nation will assume the role of leader, I am not referring to any leadership based on force or compulsion. On the contrary, accepting such a leadership means putting up with troubles and difficulty. It means serving all the societies belonging to the union, and all mankind itself. We are all the children of the Prophet Adam (peace be upon him). The Islamic world beats with a single heart. The whole Turkic world beats with a single heart. We are no different from each other. But I think that the ideal thing is for the Turks to lead the way in requesting such service. That is how it has always been. Our nation dedicated itself to that task during Ottoman times and served as leader. That is why I consider that the Turkish nation must again ask to assume that burden.
PINE RIVER: In your article "The Benefits of Unity for Muslims" you wrote:
"The Islamic Union must resolve intra-Muslim disputes and conflicts, as well as overcome the wars, conflicts, and tensions between them and non-Muslim countries, by peaceful and reconciliatory means."
Would it be correct to assume that the IU's primary leverage in dealing with wayward member states and other nations would be economic?
MR. OKTAR: The Turkish-Islamic Union will be the instrument of a much greater political, cultural and economic strength. This union will bring with it very positive developments involving all aspects of life. It will be a union that defends and protects both member nations and other countries as well, extends the hand of friendship to those in want, entirely eradicates anarchy and chaos, ensures a rise in wealth and abundance and attaches great importance to justice, democracy and love. The Turkish-Islamic world, extending from the Caucasus to Tanzania and from Morocco to Fiji, will once again, by Allah's leave, rise when it acts as one and in unison. The USA, Russia, China, Israel and all the states of Europe will see that problems that have persisted for years are suddenly resolved with the establishment of the Turkish-Islamic Union. And that will benefit everyone. All the concerns felt regarding security and economic and cultural values by those states remaining outside the Turkish-Islamic world will be eliminated when such a union is set up. The war against terror will come to an end, underground resources and raw materials will be used in the best way so as to benefit the whole of mankind, the economy will achieve stability, the slightest possibility of crisis will be eradicated, and funds set aside for military expenditure will instead be spent on providing people with a better quality and more secure life. There will be no need for America to send its troops thousands of miles away, Israel will no longer need to live behind walls, the countries of the EU will face no economic obstacles, Russia will have no security concerns and China will suffer no shortages of raw materials.
With its $400 billion military budget, the United States of America heads the armament list. Russia follows the USA with $60 billion, and China follows Russia with $42 billion. The Turkish-Islamic Union will give rise to a climate of global peace and security by eradicating all conflict and tensions regarding the Islamic world, and will also lead to a reduction in military spending, not just in Muslim countries, but on the part of a great many countries of the world. Investment in arms technology and money spent on weapons development will thus be diverted to such spheres as education, medicine, science and culture. The Turkish-Islamic Union will cause regeneration throughout the Muslim world. Thanks to the Islamic common market to be set up, products from one country will be easily marketed in another, without becoming caught up in quotas or national frontiers. Trade zones will grow, all Muslim countries will enjoy an increase in market share, exports will rise, leading to an acceleration of industrialization in Muslim countries, and economic development will lead to technological advances. A Turkic-Islamic world with a powerful economy will be a major cause of prosperity for the Western world and other societies. These societies will find a power with which they can co-operate and engage in mutual trade with no feelings of concern.
PINE RIVER: Let's look at a specific situation that exists today. There have been recent attacks perpetrated in the Chinese province of Xinjiang. Also known as East Turkestan, Xinjiang is a predominantly Muslim region. There are three questions I want to ask:
(1) What hope would the creation of an Islamic Union give to the people of Xinjiang?
(2) What are some options the IU might consider with regard to resolving the Xinjiang issue with China?
(3) What solution do you see to resolving issues related to Muslim-dominated regions located within non-Muslim countries in general?
MR. OKTAR: During communist times, the Turkic states have remained cleaner and more virtuous, without suffering any degeneration. I mean, the results have worked in the opposite direction. Go to East Turkestan and you will see highly virtuous people. There are very virtuous, devout Muslims there. That is a blessing of Allah. The whole world is protesting against the Chinese policy of oppression in East Turkestan. China is behaving very harshly in Tibet, as well as in East Turkestan. That policy of oppression must be eliminated at once. But the real issue here is the eradication of Darwinism in China, and we are engaging in intellectual activities to that end in China too. It is essential that the innocent people of East Turkestan be freed from this repression forthwith.
No-one of good conscience can accept this Chinese oppression. It should leave the people of East Turkestan to live by their own means, in freedom in a state of their own. If China wishes to trade, by all means let it do so. But if it wants to engage in exploitation, that is totally unacceptable. What does China want from East Turkestan, and what will it gain by keeping it captive? How can keeping it captive make China happy? What joy can that bring it? Is that a triumph? It should completely withdraw from East Turkestan. Let the people there go to mosques and factories in freedom. Let them converse together and share the joy of a festival. China must now perform a good deed there. The time has come. The whole world will love China when it says: "This country is one deserving of independence. There was no need for us to interfere in it. There was no point and no logic to it. This is no longer tolerable in the 21st century. We are withdrawing our troops. We are lifting our political pressure. We declare it to be a free state." Everyone will respect it. Just see how China then opens up to the rest of the world. It must leave East Turkestan to become a secular democracy and take its place in the world as an independent state. China will become very much richer. It must not think that it has anything to lose. It will gain prestige, rather than losing it. This is not something to be made a matter of pride. If it withdraws from East Turkestan, agreements regarding it can be made. They can be given more oil and electricity. There is no question of them being left with any shortages. Islamic countries will want to sell electricity, oil and energy. That would be to their advantage. If necessary, it can be sold to them on the cheap, as long as they abandon this oppression and injustice. They can demand petrol, or electricity or natural gas, but they cannot oppress and imprison millions of people for the sake of those. This can be brought about through bilateral agreements. All the Turkic states can come together and come to an agreement with China on the subject. They can suggest a 50-year agreement, for example. And oil will really be sold. But this will all be through the Turkish-Islamic Union. We need to speed up the Turkish-Islamic Union. The union will also be of benefit to China. China needs to be told this in a pleasant manner. It may imagine that this union will be to its disadvantage. But on the contrary, it will be to its benefit. It will liberate China in all respects. It will free it in military terms and free it from attack. It will free it economically. It will allow it to modernize. China must support the Turkish-Islamic Union in order to liberate its own citizens.
PINE RIVER: In what country would the headquarters of the Islamic Union be located? Why was this country selected?
MR. OKTAR: In the hadiths, our Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) reveals that the blessed Mahdi will emerge from Istanbul. "The Hour will not be established until a man from the people of my house [the Mahdi] takes possession [of the world]. He will conquer Istanbul," the Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) said. This will be a spiritual conquest, inshaAllah. Great Islamic scholars say that Istanbul will be the center of the Islamic world during the End Times. The current political developments show that Turkey has assumed an important and active role. Turkey is leading the way to peace and stability in the Caucasus, in the Middle East, and even in Africa. Things are proceeding very well, inshaAllah. A most enlightened age will dawn, under Turkish leadership, within the next 10 to 15 years. The current strife and chaos will come to an end. We will see an age of plenty and abundance, inshaAllah, similar to the age of the Prophet Solomon (peace be upon him). The salvation of the world is close at hand, by His leave. …
Mr. Adnan Oktar's Asia RFA Radio Interview (June 2008)
ASIA RFA: We know you from your works. We know you from the Science Research Foundation. Could you first give us some brief details about the Science Research Foundation? What fields does it work in? When was it founded? Just in brief for our listeners.
ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, the Science Research Foundation is a pro-Ataturk, patriotic, religious, spiritual and heroic community that espouses truth and beauty, Turkey’s becoming a Great Turkey, the Turkish-Islamic Union and the salvation of all Muslims, and captive states and nations in the territories of that Turkish-Islamic Union geography.
ASIA RFA: When you say Turkish-Islamic Union, where exactly do you mean?
ADNAN OKTAR: Everywhere from the Adriatic to China. Including the Caucasus and Turkestan. Including East Turkestan, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia, Egypt, Pakistan, Iran, all of these included.
ASIA RFA: Where do you place Christian and Buddhist Turks within that?
ADNAN OKTAR: They will also live at ease within that union. Their rights will be protected in the finest manner. It will even ensure that atheists enjoy the necessary respect, concern and services.
ASIA RFA: Yes, Mr. Harun. Now, you know about East Turkestan, of course. Enver Pasha died in Tajikistan, in what is now Turkish-Islamic lands. Many people in Turkey today say that Enver Pasha was a dreamer. But they might not be saying that if Turkestan, the pan-Turanian Union, had become a reality at that time. What we have today, of course, is the work of Nursultan Nazarbayev, which has been around for some time. There is talk of the establishment of a Turkestan [pan-Turkish] Union. What do you think of that?
ADNAN OKTAR: There is only one union. That is the Turkish-Islamic Union. It rests on the most perfect, most splendid, powerful and credible foundations. This is a just union acceptable to and including everyone. It will defend Armenians within the Turkish-Islamic Union. And Israelis and Jews. And Buddhists. And atheists. It will protect and embrace them all. But if one only wants this kind of Turk or that kind of Turk, then that is corruption. There can be no such thing. There are no different kinds of Turk. Turks are Turks. Wherever they may be in the world, they are brothers. There can be no diversity within Islam. They may be Sunnis, or Shiites, as in Azerbaijan. Or they may be Wahabbites. Or Alawites. But they are all our brothers. None of the separatist definitions can be accepted. We shall unite them all together, inshaAllah.
ASIA RFA: When we speak of Turkestan, the Turkic Republics that have emerged from Russia after a century. In the old times when you were speaking of a Turkish-Islamic geography, it was places like Bukhara and Samarkand that have been the centers of Islamic civilization, but these are now a society that have been exposed to communist materialism, Darwinist education, for a hundred years. But now Islam is there. What kind of infrastructure does the Turkish-Islamic Union have there? What is your view of the conception of Islam there? In other words, how feasible is the union?
ADNAN OKTAR: The Turkic states were purer, more honest and better during the Communist period, as they had not yet been corrupted. The effect has been a completely opposite one. Go to East Turkestan, for instance, and you will see delightful people there. There are highly virtuous, pure Muslims there. Women or young people, they all possess immaculate Islamic moral virtues. Muslims have degenerated in many places, but not there. When we go to Turkestan, for example, we are amazed at the immaculate, well brought up people we meet there. Communism has had the exact opposite effect. And that is a blessing from Allah. They have remained quite spotless. They have been insulated. Nobody has been able to damage them. The union will be a very pure one, and it looks as if it can easily come about within 10 or 15 years. InshaAllah, with Allah’s leave we are beginning with Azerbaijan, we will just be starting out from there.
ASIA RFA: This is very important, when we speak of soft power in the world today, you can spread your impact across the world through education and writing. You have many works under the name of Harun Yahya on behalf of the Science Research Foundation. Turkish-language, Uighur Turkish-language CDs have travelled as far as East Turkestan. We have worked over the radio. Could you tell us in brief about these activities? How many works have you produced to date? What languages have they been translated into? What kind of response do they attract?
ADNAN OKTAR: To date they number 260, but it is the Atlas of Creation that has most rocked the world. It has demolished Darwinism all across Europe. It has literally had the impact of an atomic bomb, as they themselves put it; again in their own words, France has suffered the greatest cultural defeat in its history. And this, again in their own words, is still continuing. There is a glorious chain effect going on. You can see the articles written about this, from our websites. My books have currently been translated into more than 60 languages. Sixty different languages. My book Communist China’s Policy of Oppression in East Turkestan is currently available in Turkish, English and German. Our brothers can download Communist China’s Policy of Oppression in East Turkestan from the Internet. It is available in Turkish, English and German. We also have a Turkish and English-language web site dedicated to East Turkestan - http://www.eastturkestan.net/. Our brothers can find all the information they want on it. As for documentaries, they can make us of The Bloody History of Communism, parts I, II and III. I have an article called “East Turkestan: An Islamic Society in Communist Territory.” I have another article titled “The Chinese Cruelty in the East Turkestan Should Not be Ignored.” I have another one called "The Truth of East Turkestan" [these three articles are available only in Turkish by the time this book is published]. But the real issue, of course, is the eradication of Darwinism in China, and we are working in China to that end. But since it is a communist country there is no real democracy there to speak of. In recent times, however, it has developed a great dependence on Europe and America. In other words, it has had to open up to the world because of its economic policy. It is now in a weak position regarding both Europe and America. If foreign countries were to sever foreign trade today, the Chinese economy would collapse. That means that America and Europe have it in their power to demolish China. That means that China is no longer as able to defy the world as it used to. This is a sign that the time for the liberation of East Turkestan has come. We must make the very best use of this period. Because East Turkestan is home to the world’s most immaculate Muslims, and perhaps its best behaved people. It is somewhere inhabited by the most insulated, select people. I have witnessed this for myself. That is to say I know it for sure, I am certain. It is therefore crucially important that these people be freed from oppression, a matter of honor for the whole world. It is a debt of honor for the whole world. This great Turkic state has to be freed from Chinese hands. It is unacceptable for any conscience for China to interfere in it. It should let East Turkestan live freely as a state in its own right with its own means. If China wants to trade it can go and trade with it. There is no question of East Turkestan attacking China. So what does China want? What does it gain? If it wants to gain something, that can be commercial. So let East Turkestan and China trade together. Nobody will let it colonize it, however, and what other meaning can taking a country captive have? What does China want from East Turkestan and what does it stand to gain by making it a captive? What happiness can that bring it? What joy will that bring to its heart? What victory is that? It must withdraw from East Turkestan completely. Let the people who live there be free to go to mosques and factories. Let them talk freely and let it turn into a festival. China must now do a good deed there. The time has come. China must stand up and admit it has made a mistake saying: “This country is one that deserves independence. There was no need for us to intervene. There was no point and no logic in it. This is unacceptable in the 21st century. We are withdrawing our troops. And we are lifting our political pressure.” The whole world will love China when it announces it is a free country. Everyone will respect it. China must commit this good deed.
ASIA RFA: You mention this in your book Communist China’s Policy of Oppression in East Turkestan; since 1949 China has executed millions of Muslims among its own citizens, but when we look at the media what we see is the U.S. invasion of Iraq, Afghanistan and later Palestine. We see in the media how many people are being killed every day. But the most painful thing today is the thousands of people in East Turkestan executed and prisoned just for writing books or poems. Tens of thousands of people, but the world is silent. Why?
ADNAN OKTAR: Everyone who favors the idea of the Turkish-Islamic Union should make a huge outcry on this subject. We will be starting our own work in that regard in the next few days. We began with Azerbaijan. It is now the turn of East Turkestan. We shall be raising East Turkestan in the press, talking about people being killed for writing that China should let East Turkestan go, should let its people live in freedom, that it keeps killing; about people being killed just for writing an article, looking up to the sky or down on the ground. This oppression is something that not even someone totally devoid of conscience should be capable of. China is doing this and belittling itself before the world. It is disgracing itself. It is disgracing everything. It is disgracing its own state and nation, and must stop doing so. It must think about this and do these things from a conception of honesty, of rationality and of proper behavior. It must withdraw from East Turkestan and leave it as a free country. Then you will see how the world opens up to China. Turkey will adopt a most excellent view of it. Workers from Turkey will go to work in China, and others from there will come here. It will adopt a totally different line. But there will always be anger in the nation’s heart so long as this open wound continues to bleed. Many people, many businessmen for example, do not go to China to do business just because of that hatred. Who would willingly go to a country that kills so many people, that commits so many murders? Everywhere is full of human blood. You will have to wade through human blood to go anywhere there today. No Muslim can wade through human blood. They must clean that blood up. They must put a stop to these killings and this oppression will be lifted. They should allow East Turkestan to be democratic. Laic. Let it take its place in the world as an independent country. China will be enriched many times by that. It must not imagine it will lose out by it. It will gain prestige, not lose it. This is not something to be made a question of pride.
Asia RFA: When we look at Turkestan geography, we see it is of great strategic importance for China. After the USA, China is one of the world’s largest energy consumers. It needs energy, oil, in order to develop. And that comes from Central Asia. There is an oil pipeline from Kazakhstan to Shanghai. There is natural gas from East Turkestan. China has occupied the region four times in the past, and has four times been the superpower in the region. China drew nourishment from there. That is why it is very important for China and China is reluctant to leave it. In contrast, however, it has adopted a relaxed policy towards West Turkestan. So what should the Turkic world, the Islamic world, do? The Uighurs are rather unhappy with the Turkic world just at the moment, because China really clamped down on them after September, 11th, using the international war against terror as a pretext. Fasting is currently banned and there is no fundamental freedom of religion. That has been determined in Amnesty International reports. What is your view?
ADNAN OKTAR: China has to abandon this Cold War mentality. If it withdraws from East Turkestan it can enter into good agreements with it. It can be given even more oil, even more electricity. Nothing will put them in a difficult position. The sale of electricity, oil and energy to them is something that Islamic countries already want. That will be to their advantage. They can be sold cheap if necessary. Just so they leave these people on their own. China may want oil, or electricity or natural gas, but there is no excuse for oppressing millions of people and keep them captive. This can be by way of bilateral agreements. It can make an agreement with Turkey, for example. China can sign agreements with states. All the Turkic states can combine together to reach an agreement with China on the subject. We will satisfy all your needs regarding natural gas, electricity or oil. But you must lift your hands from these immaculate people. That is the question; a 50-year agreement could be reached, for instance. And oil could really be sold. If only oil was the thing China wants.
ASIA RFA: Yes, what is your view of Turkey’s policy regarding East Turkestan? Turkey has many problems today. Parliament issued a notice in 1998. It is forbidden to fly the East Turkestan sky flag today. Our civil society organizations have a lot of problems here. But Turkey says; “This is damaging our trade relations. For that reason, we will not permit East Turkestan civil society organizations to engage in certain activities in here.” But looking at our trade relations, we import $14 billion-worth of goods from China. We only sell them $1 billion. Poor quality Chinese goods are currently destroying Turkish industry. Chinese goods are a huge threat. What should Turkey’s policy be? When we speak of the Turkish world, of course, we are speaking of Turkey as a deep-rooted state, the successor to the Ottoman Empire. But because of rifts in various policies, Turkey is today unable to attach sufficient importance to overseas. What do you think of Turkey’s East Turkestan policy?
ADNAN OKTAR: The fact is that, willingly or otherwise, Turkey is preserving the Turkish-Islamic Union policy in its heart. In other words, that exists in its genes. Every Turk has a subconscious desire for the Turkish-Islamic Union to be founded. But Turkey lacks the strength to deal with China on its own. That is only possible with the Turkish-Islamic Union. The Turkish-Islamic Union needs to be sped up. It has to be really accelerated. We need to explain to China, very politely, that this Union will also benefit China. This needs to be made clear to the Chinese state in the most diplomatic terms possible. China may perhaps imagine that this union will be to its disadvantage. But it will benefit China, save it, in all regards. It will save it in military terms, and protect it from any external attack. It will also save it economically. The Chinese people are still struggling, and this will enable it to modernize. I see in the papers how people are still living in tiny places resembling barns. They are desperately poor. Those people will live in much greater ease. China should support the Turkish-Islamic Union for the sake of its own people. This is not a colonialist or selfish union. It is a union of love and friendship, a union of solidarity and toleration, of moderation, built on a basis of laicism. In other words, it will be grounded in laicism, and this is most important. If it is laic, peaceful and a pro-democratic system, there is no reason for China to be worried by it. This will also allow Israel to relax. It will mean the immediate end to all the conflict in the region. Because, as you know, Palestine is suffering; but Israel is suffering, too, and there is the ever-present possibility of a bomb dropping on their heads. Israel lives behind walls. They are literally prisoners. But they have made themselves prisoners. They have locked themselves behind walls. Let us tear those walls down. Let commercial vehicles roll up there. Let busses and lorries go there. Let ships go, by sea. Let things be made easier. This may be more through the work of civil society organizations if China is to be convinced, of course. But we will be putting in some considerable effort in that direction in the next few days. This is an idea that will free China from those unnecessary fears and enable it to abandon these classic policies of state. Because in classic state policy whatever you do there is somewhere of benefit to you and you go and invade it. You crush the inhabitants and live there yourself. But there is no need to suck blood in order to live. You can do it with love and friendship. It is vampire bats living on sucking blood, it doesn’t suit China to live by sucking blood.
ASIA RFA: The Chinese have a fear of Turkish Islam. That is why the pressure on the Muslim Uighur Turks has increased of late. I interviewed a teacher only last week. He was thrown out of his job just for reciting the Bismillah in school for the students while eating, on the grounds he was a religious fanatic. That happened only recently. These things are going on today, in the 21st century. We could cite hundreds of examples. When we speak of the Turkish-Islamic Union, will we alarm China still further so the oppression in East Turkestan will increase still further? There are many Chinese books that say that the pan-Turkism, pan-Islamism in East Turkestan has stemmed from Turkey ever since the time of Sultan Abdulaziz. They are still writing this today. How effective can this thesis be there when China is acting like this?
ADNAN OKTAR: There is pan-Turkism and pan-Islamism, but there is also the Turkish-Islamic Union. In pan-Turkism if someone so wishes he can interpret this as meaning the Turkish race is superior to the other races of the world and that the other races will be its slaves. People are naturally afraid of that. Or they think of it as an Islamic Union. People might try to turn that into a ruthless system in which very harsh rules apply. We have seen this in the dark times of history. We have seen it in past times. But neither is what I am referring to here. For one thing, we have the guarantee of laicism. The system will be entirely founded on laicism, and that is most important. A Buddhist will be a first-class human being, an atheist will be a first-class human being, a first-class citizen. Muslims will be first-class citizens. Christians will be first-class citizens. Jews will be first-class citizens. And it is through laicism that this will come about. There will be a joyful, loving atmosphere and security, and of course a powerful military presence, a military establishment, wherever there is terror. There will be no need for bloodshed. You will just tell people to give terror up. And they will. Nobody will persist in the face of deterrent force. Wherever there may be terror in the world the matter will come to an end when you call to the individual and tell him to stop, because the Turkish-Islamic Union will be a militarily unbelievable powerful one. Whoever it asks, there the matter will end. And conflict will therefore end. Injustice will end. Nobody can therefore object to it.
ASIA RFA: At that time what will happen to the Westernization that has been going on in Turkey since the Tanzimat Period [the political reforms of 1839] and the project of joining the European Union?
ADNAN OKTAR: If Turkey joins the EU as the leader of the Turkish-Islamic Union, Europe will greatly rise in stature. It will be a hundred times greater. Europe will then become the greatest state in the world. But the Turkish-Islamic Union will also be the leading state over them all. It will fill the world with money, goods and plenty. Food and drink will fill the streets as if they were waste products. There will be such abundance that people will wonder what to do with it all. This huge waste, war and throwing bombs around, stems from this. In Palestine for example, Israel earn a bit of money. And that money then goes in its entirety on military expenditure. What need is there for that? Come and take your place in the structure of the Turkish-Islamic Union. Your own state can be independent. Establish your unitary nation-state. Nobody can say anything against it. You can have your own military structure, but support this system and there will be no need for military spending. There will be no need to throw bombs around in the mountains. There will be no need to slaughter millions of people. In other words, the logic is one of giving up oppression and letting them live at ease.
ASIA RFA: In terms of the Turkic Republics, there are today seven Turkish flags waving at the United Nations. But when we look at Turkestan territory we see that most of the heads of state there are former communists. Islam today represents the greatest fear in Uzbekistan. Uzbekistan is one of the foremost countries in terms of fear of Islam. How can you tell people in this geography about this Turkish-Islamic Union so long as the administrations in these republics remain unchanged?
ADNAN OKTAR: The Islam on offer in Uzbekistan is something they could find alarming, I mean there is no democracy there. There are no human rights. There is oppression and killing and murder. And they do not give any right to survive to any other school or denomination or thought different from itself. Try being a Sunni. You are finished in that system. Or you may be a Jafari, you are again finished in that system. You are bound to comply with their own system. But in the system I have outlined, all schools and faiths will be able to live absolutely freely. And in peace. If only Uzbekistan knew about this system, if only they were told about this system, they would say they are at that system’s command. But the pan-Turkism and pan-Islamism proposed are completely different things. There is blood in them. And tears. Whereas in what I am talking about there is love, and peace and brotherhood. There is also the greatest possible freedom of thought and ideas. And everyone is respected for his ideas. What a good thing it will be if someone can openly say he has no religion. Why should he hide it instead of openly admitting it? Instead of being a hypocrite, he can say he has no religion and you then know it and everyone is at ease. If he is an atheist, then he is your atheist brother, friend. That is possible, Allah created him in that way. Allah says in the Qur’an that He will create unbelievers.
ASIA RFA: When I go on the Internet and look at what young people in the Turkestan territories are writing I see that they perceive what we call laicism as atheism. We have not made this laicism completely clear. You speak of laicism, but could you tell us your views on the course it will follow?
ADNAN OKTAR: A system in which the state acts as judge in which believers and atheists can be as free as possible. Atheists do not pray or fast, and you respect that. They drink wine, and you respect that. Believers go and pray, however, and you respect that. They fast, and you respect that, too. They read the Qur’an, and you respect. That is laicism. They may sell the Qur’an and religious books, and you respect that. Or someone is an atheist and sells books about his own beliefs, and you respect that, too. That is laicism.
ASIA RFA: East Turkestan is the birthplace of people like Mahmut of Kashgar and Yusuf Has Hacip, and is inhabited by 20 million Muslims. But there are really inhumane practices going on there today. Your advice to the Muslims of East Turkestan is that there are a great many civil society organizations maintaining their activities by various means in order to tell people in the Western world, in the USA and parts of Japan, of the oppression going on there. China is constantly growing. As it grows it becomes unable to tolerate a number of sensitive issues. We have seen the case of Tibet. Tibet and East Turkestan represent two of China’s greatest raw nerves.
ADNAN OKTAR: We shall liberate Tibet, too.
ASIA RFA: What is your advice to people in East Turkestan? What needs to be done?
ADNAN OKTAR: It is of course wrong to pressurize China. The thing to be done is culture. They need to raise top-quality young people. Religious, aware, anti-Darwinist, anti-Marxist, anti-communist people who think well, professors, scientists, doctors and jurists. There is an irresistible force, that of culture. They must attach great importance to culture. Let them enter my web sites and read my books, downloadable for free. Let them read them all and be properly informed. Let them look meaningfully into China’s eyes. China will pull out. It cannot oppose it. No power can stand against culture. For example, you say the Sun has come up. Someone else doesn’t believe you. You lift a corner of the curtain and drop it again, a matter of just a second. If there are a hundred people there they will all see the light and the matter will be over and done with. A Turkestan whose young people have taken to heart there is no Darwinism, who have become expert at telling people of this, who speak of it wherever they go, will already have become an impregnable bastion. So what if there are Chinese troops there? So what of anything else there might be? They would be like a bird perched on the shoulder of a lion. The whole issue is one of turning East Turkestan into a lion, one that will still keep walking even with four crows on its back. It will still go where it wants. We must strengthen the bonds of brotherhood, make no concessions on culture and further reinforce their pure states of mind. And continue down that path. China cannot withstand that. China is constantly developing. As it becomes a super state it needs Turkey, it needs Europe, it needs America. One day soon these countries need to come together and issue an ultimatum. China could not withstand a financial embargo any longer than two weeks. It is not strong enough, it would collapse. The world has that power. But the young people of East Turkestan should be extraordinarily cultured and morally virtuous and have an extraordinary national consciousness. These moral virtues must be strengthened still further and passed on to subsequent generations, and they must be on their guard against degeneration. They will struggle against degeneration. Let them be lions. They will still walk freely even with China on their shoulders like a crow. Nothing will happen.
ASIA RFA: What kind of work are you thinking of doing in respect of East Turkestan? You have written many books and brought CDs out and they can access these over the Internet. We can announce that to them, but what are your subsequent plans for East Turkestan or the Turkestan region?
ADNAN OKTAR: We are thinking of starting with Azerbaijan. I have already said that. We shall make intensive efforts for the freedom of East Turkestan, the Turkic states and the Islamic world, but there is one very pressing matter. That is the unification of Azerbaijan with Turkey, because they are in the most appropriate position. That Lachin Corridor will be opened up. Turkey and Azerbaijan will unite, they will be two separate, unitary states with a laic system. But passports will be abandoned. Visa formalities will be lifted. There will be freedom to settle anywhere people wish. Trade will be as free as possible and there will be a military pact. And there you have the first stage of the Turkish-Islamic Union. But after that East Turkestan is most pressing. Because it is a prisoner. The horror of imprisonment needs to be placed at the head of the agenda. Because the priority must be wherever repression is at its most fierce. And that is where the priority now lies. Its position is even more urgent than that of other Islamic countries. Because the captivity is even more savage. It is fiercer in East Turkestan than it is in Palestine. The issue therefore needs to be raised and put before the public, by way of the press. Public pressure will wear China down. We will be working to force it into a corner in the days to come, in the major press, with full-scale announcements, in editorials and in television reports.
ASIA RFA: Did you come in for any protests or any pressure from the Republic of China following the publication of these books?
ADNAN OKTAR: No, but I can say that would not worry me in the least. I would actually like them to do it. I would like them to step it up a hundred thousand times. I wish they would make such protests.
ASIA RFA: I have seen the Chinese language editions of your books. Can you send them over there? Do you have readers in China?
ADNAN OKTAR: Thanks be to Allah, we have a great many brothers in China who have been influenced by my books and pray and fast and have converted to Islam. We have links to them, but I cannot give you any names or talk about those connections because that would mean giving them up to the Chinese authorities, and that is out of the question. We get a great many of our books into China. They get in through suitable channels. My books are being disseminated inside China.
ASIA RFA: You have, of course, demolished Darwinism here, but you are now taking on the entire Western world, America and the whole of China. Where do you draw that strength from?
ADNAN OKTAR: It comes from Allah, of course. If you place your trust in Allah, Allah the Praiseworthy... we cling tightly to Allah’s unbreakable bond. I have placed my whole trust in Allah. Any Muslim then becomes enormously powerful.
ASIA RFA: You have the most excellent publications, and these have been sent to teachers in Turkey. A number of reports against you have appeared in the media. Our radio listeners ask about these books. Where do the financial resources needed for so much work come from?
ADNAN OKTAR: Allah tells us in the Qur’an that He will help those who follow in His path. I have no personal property or wealth. I have no car or house or land or anything in my name in this world. But, thanks be to Allah, He opens the doors of opportunity for my friends. And it is canonically lawful, coming from legitimate sources. Allah gives them these means and they are highly successful. Various allegations have been trumped up on this subject. But official state bodies have examined them, and determined that everything was completely legal and above board. There was nothing illegal and no irregularities. They saw that all the sources of finance were legitimate. Allah helps those who travel on His path. The whole issue is one of genuine intent. Allah smooths our way because our intent is genuine. That was the case with the Prophet Solomon (pbuh), who was bound to Allah with a sincere heart and intent. Allah made him the wealthiest and strongest man of his time. That was also the case with Dhu’l Qarnayn (pbuh). He also bound himself to Allah with a sincere heart. And Allah made him the super power of the time. And so shall we be in this age, inshaAllah.
ASIA RFA:How old were you when you first heard about the East Turkestan problem? And how?
ADNAN OKTAR: I have known about it since middle school. It has always angered me, stressed me. China has always been an issue in my mind. I always think of the children there. I think of the young girls. Of what must be happening to them in the hands of the irreligious Chinese. What is going on, one can’t imagine. Just think of innocent children, young girls, imprisoned in a dark cave like that; I have always thought of it as a cave like that, with bats flying around, like in the horror films. I always thought of them as people made to live in a nightmare. That is why I have always lived with the urge to liberate them. I have had the idea of the Turkish-Islamic Union ever since childhood. It just continues growing.
ASIA RFA: Where are you from? Where were you born? Can one wonder how far back your ties with East Turkestan go?
ADNAN OKTAR: I am a sayyid descended from the blessed Hasan. I am descended from our Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace). My ancestors moved to the Caucasus at that time. There was oppression at that time, as you know. They moved to the Caucasus to save their lives. Then repression started there, as well, and sayyids began being martyred. They fled during the days of communist Russia and came to Turkey. My father’s people settled in the Bala district of Ankara. The Ottoman Empire of the time gave them employment. MashaAllah, the Ottoman Empire had such a protective nature at that time, as you know. They later settled in Ankara proper. I was born and raised in Ankara. I attended middle and high school there. Then I came to the Findikli Academy of Fine Arts in Istanbul. I studied for a while in the Interior Design Department there. Then I transferred to the Philosophy Department. That was a school with a far greater communist presence. I transferred there in order to further my activities. In fact, the Findikli Academy of Fine Arts was also under the control of the Marxists. I engaged in intense activities there, as well. I began my book-writing activities at that time.
ASIA RFA: Do you attract any reactions from Marxists, from Marxists in Turkey? From the socialists, Marxists in Turkey now?
ADNAN OKTAR: At that time, yes, I did. Not any more, but they used to threaten me then as I was going to school. They said they were going to kill me and I should stop coming to school. And I said I would die if that was my destiny. I said that threats of that kind would not intimidate me. I therefore said I would continue coming and going, and went to the prayer before their very eyes. I went backwards and forwards to the mosque. They threatened to kill me several times.
ASIA RFA: Where have you been in the Turkestan territories?
ADNAN OKTAR: Nowhere yet. But when I do, I will come to a free land, inshaAllah. I hope to go to an autonomous East Turkestan, inshaAllah.
ASIA RFA: In conclusion, is there anything you would like to say to the people of East Turkestan? What message would you like to send them?
ADNAN OKTAR: They are very dear to me, my dear brothers, whose liberation I have been praying for ever since I was a child. And I am striving for them. InshaAllah, the next 10-15 years will be years of liberation. InshaAllah, all captive Turks and captive Muslims will be freed. Let them prepare themselves very well. Let them increase their awe of Allah. Let them raise their cultural levels and their faith. Let them increase their love and fear of Allah. Let them prepare themselves as anti-Darwinists. Let them learn al the frauds and hoaxes of Darwinists. Let them visit my web sites and look at them. Let them intensify their love for one another. They must be on their guard against degeneration. They must strongly defend their national culture. And let them not get involved in anything else. InshaAllah, their liberation is close at hand.
ASIA RFA: Thank you for giving up your valuable time and having this discussion with us.
ADNAN OKTAR: Thank you.
Mr. Adnan Oktar's Live Interview On Ekin TV (January 12, 2009)
ADNAN OKTAR:The reason for Muslims’ sufferings in the End Times stems from the fact they do not know about the End Times or what they need to do in the End Times. Our Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) tells us of the cure for that disease. There is a disease and there is medicine, but Muslims are not taking the medicine. I am describing what the medicine is. They are avoiding the medicine. If they refuse to take the medicine the sickness will continue, and they will continue suffering. Has not enough Muslim blood been shed? Is the bloodshed in Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine not enough? Muslims must now come together. Let us establish the Turkish-Islamic Union. The Turkic states are captive. China is horribly oppressing East Turkestan, for example, our brothers. They are Muslims, our devout, pure and spotless Turkish brothers. They are innocent people. Young girls and children there are in a terrible state. But nobody knows about it. Who knows what is going on in East Turkestan?
ADNAN OKTAR: They do not know. A whole country…
EKİNTV: Nobody knows about East Turkestan.
ADNAN OKTAR: And what a terrible thing that is. Who knows about the secret slaughter there, the people who disappear, the unsolved killings, the people taken away from their homes in the middle of the night and never heard of again?
ADNAN OKTAR: Look, the answer to all these things is the Turkish-Islamic Union. That is a human debt for everyone, even if they are irreligious. If it is an obligation for a Muslim and a human debt for the irreligious, then it is a debt for all humanity.
Mr. Adnan Oktar’s APA News Agency (Azerbaijan) Interview (August 2008)
ADNAN OKTAR:The time that passes without the Turkish-Islamic Union will be one full of hardships. There is no other alternative. We see that in the Caucasus and in other regions. We are still seeing it now. There will be no end to it, the bloodshed will not cease. The only solution is the Turkish-Islamic Union. Any delay will leave people living under a scourge. That is why we, the Turkish nation, must strive to build this union as a matter of urgency, to bring Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkey, East Turkestan and all the Turkic states together. Every day that passes works against us, may Allah forbid. Look, the reason for the bloodshed in Georgia today, the troubles in Abkhazia, the hardships facing the Russians and the rest is that there is no Turkish-Islamic Union.
Mr. Adnan Oktar's Abu Dhabi TV Interview (February 19, 2009)
ADNAN OKTAR: These incidents are continuing because Muslims are not looking to adopt the solution. The answer is for all Muslims to be as one. That is a religious obligation, Allah’s command. Like praying or fasting, it is a religious obligation. If a person does not pray he is in a state of sin. The best solution is a Turkish-Islamic Union under Turkish leadership and with the support of the Turkic states. The reason for regarding the Turkish nation as the leader is that it is a morally and heroically a very powerful and metaphysical one. And it has a special task. The Turkish nation is the sword of Allah. By sword, I do not mean it goes around and cuts people up. It is the sword of justice. And the Turkish nation possesses the experience and strength to perform this role of leader with that justice, moral virtue, love, compassion, honesty and friendship. It has the experience of hundreds or thousands of years. It ruled the Islamic countries on three continents in peace and happiness, with very little effort. That same structure needs to be rebuilt today. The Turkish-Islamic Union needs to be built, like a modern Ottoman Empire. Christians, Jews, Buddhists and even atheists will be at ease in such an institution. The whole Muslim world will live at peace.