Italy, Quotidiano Nazionale, April 2, 2009, interview with Mr. Adnan Oktar by Luca Bolognini
1) Mr. Adnan Oktar, you are the author of the Atlas of Creation, a book of around 800 pages that weighs 5 kilos and is opposed to Darwinism. Why is it, in your view, that the theory developed by Charles Darwin is wrong?
ADNAN OKTAR: Darwinism is a pagan religion based on Sumerian beliefs and ancient Egyptian superstitions. There is nothing scientific about it. At a time when the structure of the cell was unknown, when the nature of the atom was a mystery, when there were no electron microscopes, when it was thought that flies emerged from meat left out in the open and when there were not even any biros around, Darwin collected together ideas he picked up from ancient Sumerian and Egyptian inscriptions and from ancient Greece and presented these as a new discovery. But as science and technology advanced in the 20th century it has been clearly proved that evolution does not exist. Darwinism, a theory that is unable even to explain how the first cell came into being, has collapsed right from the outset. No Darwinist is able to offer a rational, logical and scientific explanation of how strawberries, cherries, antelopes, rabbits, cats, dogs and human beings who found civilizations, study the atom, compose symphonies, travel into space and produce newspapers could have emerged from rock, earth and a quantity of mud. Because when we ask how this happened, they say it was a miracle. They say it can happen if enough time goes by. They have literally come up with a magic formula, claiming that everything can emerge from a bit of mud and lightning and with the addition of sufficient time. Even primary school children would laugh in the face of such a tall tale; but these people are still, amazingly enough, capable of espousing such a story. But it is of course the fossil record that has dealt the real lethal blow to Darwinism.
As you know, Darwinism maintains that that all living species emerged by gradual descent from a common ancestor. If that claim were true, then these stages should be clearly visible in the fossil record. There should be evidence showing that one species turned into another. We should be able to see fossil traces of life forms with semi-developed ears and half-wings, whose eyes have not yet fully formed etc. But we see not a single transitional form in the fossil record. More than 100 million fossils have been unearthed. But they all belong to fully formed living things, and were the same millions of years ago as they are today. So where is evolution in that? Darwinism himself asks in his Origin of Species, "Why, if species have descended from other species by insensibly fine gradations, do we not everywhere see innumerable transitional forms?” Because there are no such forms, that is why. “Why is not all nature in confusion instead of the species being, as we see them, well defined?” he asks. Because Allah (God) has created the universe and living things with a flawless order, that is why. He at last confesses: . And at the end he admits: " Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely graduated organic chain; and this, perhaps, is the most obvious and gravest objection which can be urged against my theory..." Darwinists have been looking for 150 years but have never found a single transitional form. And they never will, because living things did not come into being by gradually descending from one another. They never evolved. (See Charles Darwin, The Origin of Species, pp. 172-280 for these passages from Darwin)
2) How many people are involved in your association? How many countries have you reached?
ADNAN OKTAR: My immediate circle is not that large. But there are millions of people who like me, read my works and support my views. My books have been translated into some 60 languages. Some 500 web sites in different languages make use of my works and attract an average of 5-6 million visitors a month. The number of my books sold the previous year was 8 million, and more than 16 million last year. There has been a doubling, in other words. And as you know, all my books and articles and documentary films based on them are available from the Harun Yahya web sites, free of charge. Everyone who wants can download and copy them as they wish. I ask no royalties. The number of works downloaded over the net is approaching 80 million. Masha’Allah, it is growing like an avalanche.
3) You claim that Darwinism is about to collapse. What makes you so confident?
ADNAN OKTAR: I say that it is about to collapse merely out of politeness. If you want the truth, it has already totally collapsed. Darwinism is dead, and all that remains is to bury the body. The time when Darwinism was able to deceive people with speculation and trickery is over. Darwinists used to have free rein because they took advantage of people’s ignorance. They used to act according to the logic of “The public cannot understand this scientific matter, you cannot understand it, but if we say it is true, then it is.” But there is no need to be a professor in order to realize the invalidity of Darwinism. For example, there is no need for someone looking at a 100-million-year-old spider fossil to be a university graduate to see that the spider has never evolved. There is no point in telling someone who can see there is no difference between the spiders in his garden and this 100-million-year-old specimen a whole bunch of evolutionary tales using incomprehensible Latin terminology. He will just laugh at you. Because he can clearly see the truth.
4) According to an interview you released with Arab News, you claim that your work inspired Nicolas Sarkozy, Jacques Chirac and Tony Blair. Do you have any evidence of that?
ADNAN OKTAR: That is not just my view, but the view of the Western media, and the French press in particular. In addition, a great many statesmen and senior administrators sent letters of thanks after receiving the Atlas of Creation, and one can see how influenced they were by the book from those letters. You know what Messrs Sarkozy and Blair used to think. But there has now been a radical alteration in those views. These people, who used to hold socialist and Darwinist views, now remember Allah in their speeches, stress the importance of faith and even say that they read the Qur’an. Looking at this process of change, we see only one thing demonstrating the invalidity of Darwinism in a concrete manner: The arrival of the Atlas of Creation in Europe. There were books that discussed and espoused creation in Europe before the Atlas, but none provoked such a huge response. The distinguishing feature of the Atlas of Creation is that the information and evidence set out is concrete and scientific and indisputable. There is nothing weak, passive, hesitant, irrational or unscientific about it as with other works people are used to seeing about creation. I of course except the religious passages contained in these works. With the Atlas of Creation, Darwinists saw for the first time a style that they could not withstand, and went into shock because of it. The scale of that shock and panic can be seen from the reports in the press. Europe is now undergoing the true enlightenment, insha’Allah. There has been a rapid fall in the number of people believing in Darwinism in Europe, and the turning to faith is also proceeding at high speed. We see this from the public opinion polls and from reports in the press.
5) Tens of thousands of copies of the book have been delivered, on an unsolicited basis, to schools, prominent researchers and research institutes throughout Europe and the United States. How many copies have you delivered exactly? How much did that cost? How can you afford such an expense? Who is financing you?
ADNAN OKTAR: How many copies of the book have been printed, how many were distributed free and such questions are matters for the publishers. I draw no royalties from my books. The publishers decide on matters such as free distribution and marketing. But, thanks be to Allah, my books sell in large numbers. As you know, the dispatch of the Atlas of Creation to Europe was a move made by the publisher as a promotion, following which book sales rose 4-5 times. We received many orders from France in particular.
6) PZ Myers, a biologist and associate professor at the University of Minnesota, wrote that you are incompetent. Someone even scrutinized the photos in the book and discovered that there was a fishing lure in the picture of the caddis fly. What do you have to say about that?
ADNAN OKTAR: I find some people’s comments on the caddisfly in question quite laughable. Note that all they have to say is about the nature of the illustrations, but they can say nothing about how the caddisfly is exactly the same today as it was millions of years ago. Pictures of all kinds can be used in all books, sometimes drawings are used or models can be used, just open any encyclopedia. Indeed, drawings are usually preferred in encyclopedias. The way that Darwinists make so much out of a caddisfly illustration because of a color or an alteration just shows what a helpless position they are in. But they make not a word of comment about the living thing in the illustration, preserved in amber, being exactly the same. There is a profound silence on that score. There is a profound silence on the subject of the hundreds of fossils in the book representing fully formed and flawless living things.
7) In September 2008 you issued a challenge offering "10 trillion Turkish lira (around 8 trillion dollars) to anyone who produces a single intermediate-form fossil demonstrating evolution". Do you really have such a huge amount of money? Did anyone ever apply?
ADNAN OKTAR: I have been issuing that challenge for months, but not a single person has come forward and said, “Here is an intermediate form fossil.” If anyone does, if anyone posseses such a fossil, then I will hand over the money, insha’Allah. But nobody ever has, and will never be able to. Look, they have been digging the earth up and looking for transitional forms everywhere for 150 years. But they have never found one. Every fossil unearthed shows that living things came into being suddenly with all their characteristics, in other words, that they did not acquire these features gradually, but were created. All the fossils unearthed show that they have undergone not the slightest change for tens or even hundreds of millions of years, in other words, that there is no evolution. That is why Darwinists are so profoundly silent and why noone has come forward.
8) In 2008, you were sentenced by a Turkish court to three years in prison for "creating an illegal organization for personal gain". Do you have anything to say on that?
ADNAN OKTAR: The sentence has not been confirmed. The case is still with the Supreme Court. I have already been subjected to unbelievable slanders because of my opinions, have been detained in prison and even put in a mental hospital. I have been the sufferer of conspiracies the like of which have never been seen in the history of the Turkish Republic. But I have been acquitted and absolved of all those accusations. You can see the relevant documentation and examples in the section on the author’s life on the www.harunyahya.com web site. If the state subsequently decides I should spend time in prison, it will be an honor to serve time there. I do not avoid such things, they do not intimidate me. On the contrary, such things increase the determination to struggle, my enthusiasm and fervor, many times over. My influence will grow a thousand or a million times, insha’Allah. I have complete respect for the court ruling. I wish the members of the court all the very best. But nobody believes I am the leader of a criminal enterprise. If the sentence is ratified, I will presumably be the only gang leader who has written 300 books and enjoys a readership of millions.
Legally, it will be useful to state that this case has lasted for 8 years. Neither at the time of the first interview nor over the ensuing 8 years have any of the allegations been supported by a single piece of legal and concrete documentation. Indeed, the prosecutor stated in two separate legal opinions that the allegations against us were untrue and that my colleagues and I should be acquitted. Look what the prosecutor says in his opinion: "The evidence collected by the court contains no evidence against the defendants.” The prosecutor says there is no evidence. “Under article 148-4 of the penal code, statements taken by the police under duress and without the presence of a lawyer are inadmissible as evidence; and thus the court also admits this.” Under Turkish law, statements taken under duress at the Security Department are legally inadmissible, and the court trying me said as much in its earlier rulings. The prosecutor says there is no evidence apart from statements taken in the absence of a lawyer and under duress, and that these are of no legal worth.
In addition, the prosecutor says that 6 defendants, our colleagues, were acquitted of the same charges on the basis of the same evidence in the same case and in the same manner, and that they were all acquitted after being tried in the same way in the same case. He goes on to say, “you have acquitted these 6 people, and since the evidence and charges are the same, you should acquit these defendants, too.” In conclusion, he says: Since there is no evidence to prove that the defendant Adnan Oktar committed the offenses of establishing an organization for criminal purposes and that the other defendants were leaders and members of such an organization, I consider and request in the name of the law that all the defendants should be acquitted individually of all the charges against them under article 223-e of the penal code.” But the court said, “we do not share that opinion.” But there is good in everything.
9) Mr. Oktar, you are responsible for the blocking of numerous high-profile web sites in Turkey. Richard Dawkins' website is no longer accessible in Turkey, and wordpress.com is impossible to use. Do you fear that the internet might damage you?
ADNAN OKTAR: The Internet is a wonderful blessing created by Allah. It is an important instrument in describing the oneness and existence of Allah and in revealing the invalidity of Darwinism. And we use the Internet in a very useful and effective manner. We may be engaged in the most effective activity of all on the Internet. As for the subject of the closure of Dawkins' web site, nobody can allow himself to be insulted. You would not want it to be done to you, and nor would Dawkins. That being the case, nobody should do anything he would not want to be done to him. All countries’ laws protect people against defamation, slander and physical or verbal assault. Nobody can freely insult anyone else in your country, and legal measures will be taken if they do. I used my legal rights and applied to the courts. The court decided an offense had been committed and applied the legal sanctions.
I am someone who favors freedom of thought and freedom of expression. We have invited Dawkins to Turkey many times. We have said, “Come and debate with us.” “If you don’t want to come to us, we can come to you,” we said. Why should I provide such an environment if I were opposed to Dawkins’ freely expressing his opinions and ideas? Dawkins and other Darwinists must be free to speak so that people can better see what utter nonsense Darwinism is.
10) You claim that the evils of materialism, Nazism, Communism and Buddhism are related to Darwinism. How is that possible?
ADNAN OKTAR: This is not my idea. Everyone who reads and studies history knows it. Hitler was a convinced Darwinist. Marx, Lenin, Stalin and Mao were all Darwinists and they all adopted evolution as an ideology right down to the wire. The only reason why people are still so determined to keep Darwinism alive despite its having been scientifically disproved is ideological. Since it is the supposed scientific basis of materialism it is fiercely supported by all materialist and atheist ideologies. You can look in my book for all the relevant details. I have described it in detail there. (http://www.harunyahya.com/disaster1.php)
But to summarize here, belief in Allah bestows feelings of affection, compassion and love on people. But if a person thinks that someone else emerged spontaneously from swamp mud and even regards him as a kind of animal, then he will think of him as an insect and harbor no feelings of affection, compassion or love toward him. There may be a few rare exceptions, but generally not. World Wars I and II and the disasters inflicted by emperialism in the third world are all confirmations of this fact. Hitler describes clearly and in detail how he was influenced by Darwin. The same with Mussolini and all fascist movements. It is this diseased mentality that lies behind all mass killings. Because Darwinism believes the strong will eliminate the weak. Whereas when proper moral values are applied, it is those in the right who are strong. Even if weak, those in the right are strong. Darwinism has corrupted the world for 150 years, and everyone has seen that. It is the source of all conflict, but one needs to have a detailed look at the intellectual and scientific evidence in my book to grasp that scientifically, rationally and in detail.